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PicklePod 35: JW Johnson and Parris Todd are Screwing Up Predictions

by The Dink Media Team on

Rob Nunnery crashes the PicklePod to talk PPA Orange County Cup and the Tennis Channel broadcast. The boys brainstorm a battle of the tours team event between the top players on the APP and PPA Tour. A nudist pickleball colony has caught everyone’s attention and we get into some old fashioned paddle talk.


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*Show notes*

(3:02) Tyson’s surprise game with the Waters
(9:05) Pickleball on Tennis Channel. How the heck do you watch Tennis Channel? (13:02) Rob Nunnery is back by popular demand
(17:37) Fan of the wide frame camera?
(19:34) Ideas to improve the viewership experience
(25:18) Weekend results JW and Parris Todd take titles
(31:51) Who can break the specialization mold
(34:13) Battle of the Tours an all-star showdown
(42:35) Get your DUPR ready
(51:55) Live podcast recording from the nudist colony
(1:00:28) PaddleGate continues with an anonymous letter


Thomas  0:01
And we're live. Welcome to pickle pod.

Tyson  0:06
Pickle pod.

Thomas  0:07
Do you? Do you? I was thinking about doing like a formal intro and then I got

Tyson  0:15
Oh, no. Do you want to riff a formal intro right now? Not really. Okay. I thought we could we could use this time to hear a formal entry intro by you but no. Are you at your apartment? Are you at a hotel?

Thomas  0:33
My apartment is roasted dude.

Tyson  0:37
I don't know. Is that your own artwork and stuff? Where did that come? Department?

Thomas  0:44
Yeah, he's got this.

Tyson  0:46
Okay, cool.

Thomas  0:47
asked me about it. Dude.

Tyson  0:48
Is that Geronimo?

Thomas  0:50
That is kind of Parker. Okay. And he. So it actually has a lot I didn't even realize this. So I'm, I was in an airport. I remember where I was going. Maybe we just

Tyson  1:00
aren't well off airport wall. Oh, dude, I was gonna be like that happens. Because you know, you go to those places. And they're like, Yeah, decorated with art, but all the artists for selling a lot of airports.

Thomas  1:13
No, I was flying to New York, maybe for our thing in New York. And so I like to walk in bookstores and just buy whatever, and just buy random books and not really understand like what I'm getting into. And so the one I chose was empire of the summer Moon, I think which is all about, like the last remaining Native American tribe, within Texas in the Great Plains, the Comanches. And Connor Parker was like this 23 year old chief, that was relentless. I mean, I know, they would refer to them as savages. But he was just he was savage. Like, that's how I would describe that as just a badass. Okay, and he was the last holdout. And he's like a great warrior. And I was like, so this book is the craziest book I've ever read. I was tweeting about it. And it's ton. It's filled with tons of interesting history. And it's really relevant to Austin to which I didn't even realize was gonna be the case. And so I was, I was super inspired by the student. I was like, I'm getting and I needed something right here, because this is a big blank wall. So I was like, alright, that's how I'm getting dope. Because it fits too, because I have like a big buffalo in there. And I've got other artwork, but

Tyson  2:26
you never wear southwest print or anything when I see you.

Thomas  2:29
Yeah, well, hey, that's

Tyson  2:30
a perfect next step.

Thomas  2:32
Okay. today's day and age, you want to get the pod canceled.

Tyson  2:36
No, Southwest is fine, dude, I love southwest print. Let's see. We had Oh, I mean, I love your story. There's no transition to go from there to other than I could recommend books for you, or anything like that. But I had a great night last night. So let's hear about it. My friends from out of town, who he's from Dallas. He comes in plays pickleball with me works for the Texas Rangers. So he comes in and plays pickleball with me when he's traveling for to the team's headquarters here, not their official headquarters, but their spring training headquarters. And so he's like, want to play pickleball. So I get a group together and we go to Belle Bank Park at legacy. And we roll in. And we're playing NIC Lee waters walk past but she's like in jeans and a T shirt and I'm like, Hey, she's like, Hey, what's up? I had that. Like, what are you doing? She's like, Oh, we're just on our way home stopped here just to hang out for a little bit. I was like, Oh, that's cool. And I look over in Anneli waters is also in street clothes, but she is playing in. She's just helping with a little camp thing that Caden Moffitt is putting on, you know, Caden,

Thomas  4:02
no, but I have a really good friend from Phoenix area named Moffitt. Like his last name is Moffat. No, this guy's this guy's Moffat and I've never heard that last name before.

Tyson  4:13
Yeah, so he, him and Anna Lee played pickleball like as a mixed doubles lot early on.

Thomas  4:23
What's your friend's name?

Tyson  4:24
Caden Moffat. But he's not from Phoenix original. So, yeah, so anyways, so they're over there. And so we're hanging out but like they're, they're just in. Oh, no, it's not kid Moffatt. It's Caden knee moth. Not Moffat. Sorry, Caden. Caden the mouth pickleball professional head teaching pro at legacy. So he's pals with the waters. And so I'm like, Hey, He, they're on their way out. They've been playing for I don't know how long and I'm just like, hey, you guys want to play? And he's like, No, I'm in jeans is like yeah, that makes sense. I would want to play in jeans either. But Anneliese like Okay, so we round up Anneli waters to play some rec games with us in jeans, shorts, and like a long sleeve. Plaid. button up shirt.

Thomas  5:26
Let's dissect the excuse they gave you for being there. What in specific Did they say? Why were they at this park?

Tyson  5:35
They are friends with Caden. So they were there for that they were checking out the area, because they need a headquarters on the west coast as well, because a lot of the tournaments are on the West Coast, right. And they have seven weeks of no tournaments because the PPA is on, like almost a two month break before their next tournament. Right. And so they were like, we're just moseying on our way back home to Florida. But we have seven weeks. And they were like We love just stopping in at places randomly and unannounced and playing and getting some rec games in and some people recognize us and get super stoked about it. And some people don't recognize this at all. And then some people like recognizes this later. And it's just like a fun thing for us to do.

Thomas  6:28
Yeah, got it.

Tyson  6:29
So why did they do you have a different story?

Thomas  6:33
I mean, I want to create a conspiracy theory out of this, I want to like, pretend like you disrupted some big deal that, you know, hasn't been announced or something like that. But

Tyson  6:42
no, no, I don't think so. So, yeah, so that was it. So that was a lot of fun. And one of the kids that was playing was with us will soon become diarrhea pants Magoo, right. Dude.

Thomas  7:00
That's so funny to me. That's, that's Jim this kid. Well, yeah,

Tyson  7:03
yeah. Well, so I he was played with us. So hey, when we got Anna Leigh waters to play with us, he was just like, oh my gosh, yeah, stoked on it. So he played the last game with her against me and my brother in law, Chad, who you've played against before? Where? When you came through Arizona, I think Chad was, was playing with us. So yeah, so that was exciting. Super exciting for will.

Thomas  7:33
And Chad's not the the one who has the Instagram like with his family as he probably like the Instagrammer. He has like 1000s of follow.

Tyson  7:41
Oh, no, that Sam is that we played with? We did. It was him. But you know, there were two others too. Oh, okay. Well, Jack, was there for with you. Yep. And then there were two others hanging out. Okay. Yeah, Chad was probably one of them. Yeah, so yeah, so that was super fun. Are you jealous? That's a head nod for our listeners. He's jealous.

Thomas  8:12
Well, I'm curious if I think the waters were. We're thinking about getting a place in Austin. So I wonder if they're thinking Phoenix now.

Tyson  8:20
Other projects looking around deciding west coast, or somewhere on the west, which is the best and Phoenix. Phoenix is good because it's very close to California. You can drive is six hours to the coast of California to La San Diego, those areas right all along. There's like five, six hour drive. So that's nice. Las Vegas is five hours, St George's like six hours St. George Utah. So you could almost drive to a lot of those big tournaments. And then the airport is so major that it has direct flights to pretty much anywhere in the US.

Thomas  9:05
So did you watch the PPA this weekend? That's tough. I mean, championship Sunday was on Tennis Channel.

Tyson  9:11
Yeah, but how do you access Tennis Channel?

Thomas  9:14
It's like an i i always like when people bring up streaming apps. I'm like, I'm subscribed to everyone. Yeah, well, like yeah,

Tyson  9:24
I've gone through all my I'm spending like $150 on streaming on streaming channels, like way more than I ever paid on cable, and I cannot get Tennis Channel anywhere.

Thomas  9:34
Yeah, well, yeah, Rob's gonna come on and he was making a whole thing of it like on social he was just like, can somebody get me Tennis Channel? Yeah.

Tyson  9:43
I mean, it's it's worse than the ESPN plus, which I paid for to watch pickleball last year.

Thomas  9:51
Oh, really? So you gotta cancel that now? I guess. I mean, I guess you put one on there at one point.

Tyson  9:57
I mean, but it's still like impossible. to use so like even still, yeah, you really, it's you're not. And this was a problem for pickleball. You're not scrolling through channels and being like, oh, there's pickleball. Like you literally have to get a team of scientists sit down. And then they come up with some formula that you have to type in a code to your TV remote.

Thomas  10:26
That's funny that you say that because Rob was like, How do I get tenants? He texted Rob nonrenewal? How do I get Tennis Channel? And I was like, you either need to hire an Argentinian code breaker or Edward Snowden to get you in? Because it's I have no idea.

Tyson  10:41
It's so exciting to hear that news. Like it's on Tennis Channel. But then you're like, nobody can access. So what's,

Thomas  10:49
what's the logic? So tennis channel gets to what attract? Let's say best case scenario. 1000 people to sign up for their thing? Is that even like, does that make a difference for them? That that revenue, and then for the PPA? What is the what is the motivation? Other than just like, yeah, they wanted to work with tennis channel, because the broadcast will improve cetera, et cetera. It's sort of like a validation thing. That's the That's That's it. But what you're doing is, you're icing out like me who I'm like somebody who actually watches this stuff. And other people who actually watch this stuff in favor of hopefully, attracting new new fans from like the tennis world. Like that might be that might be a better search, strategic play. I'm more just like, wondering out loud, like, what are the what are the advantages?

Tyson  11:48
Yeah, off the cuff. And just based off of your little thing, there, I'm thinking Tennis Channel. This is their motivation. They're not interested in news as subscribers, subscribers so much right now, but they see the trajectory of pickleball. So they see a future in it. So they're like you have to be an early so that you have a relationship with pickleball. When and if it goes berserk go. So they want to be there. On top of that. You're a content creator Thomas, you know how nice it is to have free content just shoveled into your inbox. Like that's so nice that you don't have to then create your own content, you can just be like, barf, here it is on our thing. So like, that's the thing too, they like tennis channel is definitely going to have some lags the tennis content,

Thomas  12:40
you lost me completely.

Tyson  12:43
I don't think well hold

Thomas  12:44
on let's let's add in let's add in Nunnery because I know he has his his qualms with the with the Tennis Channel thing, but there's actually a few more things I want to say about it.

Tyson  12:53
But I want I want to finish from from. But let's add in Rob, but don't let me cut don't cut off my rant here right now. Okay, Rob, I'm in some flow right now.

Rob  13:04
I feel it. You're so passionate about this. I love it. Keep going.

Tyson  13:06
Thank you. So I think that the Tennis Channel, like they get some nice content that they don't have to like necessarily work that hard for. And, like, if you're showing all tennis all the time, then you definitely have room to show some pickleball for sure. And and then why not? And then from the tour standpoint, it adds some credibility, some clout, it's exciting, until you realize that even with a team of some of the greatest scientists in the world, you're not figuring out how to be able to watch that thing. Yep. So I mean, I think the and just from my perspective, the best thing you could do is also if Tennis Channel has a YouTube channel, and they have exclusive rights to the content, put it out on there. Like that is worth something, having people tuned into your YouTube channel as well. So yeah,

Thomas  14:09
I had Rob Rob, why do you think they are on the Tennis Channel right now other than like, the upping the production value, and kind of in the validation of being able to say we're on the Tennis Channel?

Rob  14:21
Yes, that's it. Yeah, I think that's it. They're obviously not getting getting. There's not a media right. Still, they're not getting paid for it. Yeah. So yeah, it's just for exposure. It's better production quality like it was it did look nice at San Clemente right to have the studio to have Morgan. Just it up the production quality. That

Thomas  14:44
was I didn't I didn't watch it. So I actually only knew about the studio thing, which was cool, by the way, but I only knew about it because Morgan Evans posted a picture.

Rob  14:53
I didn't I didn't see it in. And I was like, I didn't even know that was the thing. I didn't either but I'm assuming it was good. Yeah, so

Thomas  15:01
I actually love listening to Morgan. He's just got a phenomenal voice. And his cadence is great. uses some crazy words too. I always, I always learn a lot of vocabulary when I when I listen to him,

Rob  15:13
pull the store. So with Morgan,

Tyson  15:15
Morgan Evans

Thomas  15:17
Yeah, yeah,

Tyson  15:17
I always there's always Mobis read like, Oh, did he just say it like, they're they remember the Vegas open last year. He's like, What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Am I right boys? And nobody laughed everybody. Yeah, I love those. Those are my favorite Morgan Evans. Yeah, he's like, I think I did cross the line. But yeah, I did. Nobody's reacting.

Rob  15:38
Everybody's ignoring what I said. And a lot of his jokes are just like, they're so subtle that most people actually do miss them.

Tyson  15:44
Yeah, well, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Am I right?

Rob  15:50
It's pretty straightforward. Pretty straightforward on that one. Yeah.

Thomas  15:57
Okay, well, what about my last point on that? Or question about the Tennis Channel thing was the wide frame. I didn't like to work for him. I thought it was a bad.

Rob  16:07
No, it was GARBAGE. Yeah. Well,

Tyson  16:09
I didn't I didn't even get to see it. I couldn't you guys probably blocked up all the scientists and I couldn't figure out the algorithm to get onto the Tennis Channel was doing this to us. So there's Yeah, well, that's my point from full wide or what?

Rob  16:26
Yeah. And they just didn't use it at the appropriate times. Just one of my biggest gripes about viewership and pickleball right now and getting new viewers on. It's just not shot very well. It doesn't capture doesn't capture how fast everything is, it doesn't capture how tough it is to actually keep the ball soft, and not pop it up. Because people are like, Oh, it's why is it so slow? Why are they hitting it so soft? Well, even though they're hitting it soft, it's still a very challenging shot to keep it on attackable. Right, because the margins are so small of, of what's on attackable versus what somebody is going to punish you with. So just Yeah, it's my biggest gripe is nobody shooting it. Well, nobody's figured out how to do it, to where it actually captures the skill and the ability level of the top pros. So I think until that's figured out, it's always going to be a challenge. And you know, they experimented, right, like they tried that wide, that wide camera angle from the kitchen. And yeah, just

Tyson  17:25
did it stretch things out and make it look a little wonky, or what was the what was the main issue with it?

Thomas  17:30
I thought it was just like too zoomed out when they were doing. I like when they get up. And they they get zoomed in at the kitchen line with a little wide frame. But it was the whole thing. It

Rob  17:40
was a whole court. Yeah, it

Thomas  17:41
was a whole lot. So it was like it was tough to me. You just can't. I mean, so one of the hardest parts about pickleball generally and like turning it into a spectator sport is making people realize the nuance and the skill. And if you're wide frame, like you're doing the opposite. I think like because you can't really see the difficulty. It's just just masks that.

Rob  18:03
I could think of that, that could really change the viewership experience. So well, let me your standing. Yeah, go ahead.

Tyson  18:11
Let me stop you right there. Because this you're leading into what I wanted to ask you. Yeah. In your mind as a professional pickleball player? Yeah. If you were hired on as a consultant for these film crews, or somebody because is it? Is it a lack of knowledge of the game of the people actually filming it and producing it? That is the issue? Or is it that Pickleball is a riddle in being able to show what you want to show on camera?

Rob  18:41
No, I think I think you're exactly right. In the first point, I think it's not necessarily like, like, I mean, these film crews or videographers are world class, like they do amazing work, they shoot the French Open, they shoot you at like, they're, there's no question in terms of being able to shoot. The question is yeah, not understanding the game and not understanding what's going to attract and pull in kind of that new viewer. And in my opinion, just kind of thinking about, like, what that could look like, just spitballing here is, you know, to understand to understand, especially the soft game with dinks, right? Like, I don't know, if there's a measurement, I don't know, if there's some kind of graphic you put on screen like let's say it's a four person deep rally, everybody's the kitchen, cross workings mixing up down the line. Like if you could somehow show height, over the net or depth into the court where that ball is bouncing, and understanding like, what the safe zone is where it's gonna be and attackable unless somebody pulls the trigger off a bounce, like finding out where those safe zones are versus like the neutral zone versus the attackable zones and being able to show that on screen. Because let's say somebody pops a dekap And it's like, oh, that's an that's in the green zone. That means they're gonna attack then that would be pretty cool because then you understand exactly why they're doing what they're doing. Because right now people are like watching a new viewer and they're like, why are they just hitting stop? Why don't they get a heart. And you know, that should be that should be commentary to like showing, okay? These are some examples of why they're hitting it soft. When this guy speeds up off the bounce, he gets punished, and you can show like a Dekel Thunder Punch, like it's not coming back. So I think there just needs to be a better job of education and shooting and kind of explaining why players are hitting the shots that they're hitting.

Tyson  20:26
Okay, I like that. Do you think along those lines, there probably needs to be more cameras around. Like my experience in reality TV is that there is a GoPro stashed under everything. Everywhere you turn you're like, what? Yeah, I've been on reality TV a bunch of times, and you bump into GoPros. Every turn like, Oh, they're filming? Yeah, 90 day fiance. I've been on that a bunch of time.

Thomas  20:56
That one that one worked out. That a couple kids now.

Tyson  21:00
Yeah. So but like I was thinking like little cameras on the posts. Yeah. Along the everywhere. Outline. But But then, if you have too many cameras, you can't show it live, because it's going to be too tricky to shift. Yeah. And maybe that that's the but then, like, how late can you show you can't, because people already will look at the results that people who want to watch the, the matches are already going to. So that's probably part of it, too. Because I think tennis, you can take a wider angle and a wider lens and see the majority of the action,

Thomas  21:39
but then baseline most of the time.

Tyson  21:43
Yeah, but pickleball you couldn't do that? Right? No, you just that's how they always do it. But they shouldn't they we need more angles on Pickleball. I like

Thomas  21:53
it better than what they're doing now. That's awesome. But yeah, I agree there. There should be better angles. All right. But let's,

Rob  21:58
let's change Oh, no, one more, one more. Because I did see like, I don't remember where I saw it. But I saw an interesting angle. But I think it was from a drone had to be was probably. Yeah, probably you. But it was it was kind of a side view kind of show in the kitchen. But more from like a little bit of an aerial but not to the point where you're like right on top, which I don't like because you can't really see like I said, you know what's attackable? What's not, that's what's interesting to me. If I'm watching a dink rally, how soft are these guys keeping it or they keep like could that have been attacked, but they decided to do it anyways, all that stuff. But this angle was shot from the side a little above the cord, but you could still see kind of what's going on how high the dinks are. And then it kind of came across more towards like it kind of looped around it towards the back. So you like I think that's interesting. When you're seeing a dink rally, you're not to aerial. But you're kind of going around and moving as the points going could get distracting to players. But like if there's like, let's call it a circle, kind of a loop over the cord, but not too high. Where you can capture that that would look really cool. Yeah,

Tyson  22:59
I mean, I think also like, everybody's kind of afraid to get in there a little bit because tennis doesn't do that. But yeah, even football like you go to the Dallas stadium and they're like, hey, yeah, and they're like, if you kick the ball into it, that's just like them's the brakes. Yeah. And like, like, they just need to, you know, be like, this is for production is going to look dope. The camera is only 10 feet above your guys's head. And if that you knock that that's just a replay of the point. Keep your service low, no moon ball serves like something like that, to increase the production value, improve the production value, which will then increase viewership. Yeah, I

Rob  23:40
think players can adjust to whatever needs to be done. But I think all players would agree that having higher production value is going to eventually earn them more money, so just do it. Yeah. All right.

Thomas  23:52
Let's talk about talent. Let's kind of picking off our conversation with with Travis. Right. Yeah, dude. And what?

Tyson  24:01
I've had so many thoughts about this, just watching the weekend as I was seeing the results, and I was like, I gotta talk to Thomas about this.

Thomas  24:08
Yeah. J so J dub wins parents, Todd wins.

Tyson  24:13
Is this bad for the PPA that non PPA players are winning these things?

Thomas  24:19
Well, it's good. It's good for the PPA because yeah, actually happens on there has more variety. Yeah. Like it as long as it's happening on their stage. It's a good thing. Okay, you're talking about it devaluing them as being the talent near tour that yeah, the top cream of the crop? Yeah, you can make that you can make that argument that these players who are, you know, predominantly playing on a different tour are coming in and, you know, beating the best but yeah, you know, Ben wasn't there in in singles. So, you know, Asterix asterisk there but Paris, on the other hand came in and She was smoking the ball. Yeah, so gripping the wall. That was my every time.

Rob  25:04
And I picked her too because I was like I saw what she did to Catherine and I haven't seen. I mean, even Anna Lee doesn't dismantle Catherine like that. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, she is she gave people problems like she like, Anneli tried to come in Paris's passing shots are so good. Like her ground. Knees are just so good.

Thomas  25:23
Yeah, every time just what do you call them? Brownies?

Rob  25:26
You say grads groundstrokes tennis term? I guess.

Tyson  25:31
It sounds more like Morgan Evans term ground is. And you're like, what is that? Is that like ground squirrels you eat in Australia and Outback what's so is what is she doing? Because we haven't in my few years here in pickleball. I haven't seen somebody hit the ball that hard that consistently over and over and over again, is it the power with which she hits the ball, or the accuracy with which she hits the ball or I think it's absolutely a combination of both she's

Thomas  26:04
she's a carbon player, but she's playing with the Yolen in sandals, and I play with a Joola now. And they're not paying for an ad on this podcast. I can hit nasty forehand, so

Tyson  26:18
you don't even think it's Paris at all your

Thomas  26:19
battle. I'm like good at singles now. Well, I do think you're good to see it goes now a little bit of Yeah, and odd. And I never come in. So tip to anybody ever playing me and singles. And I'm trying to hit winners constantly. And if I'm not playing against somebody who's like, you know, a four or five or above, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna hit winning shots the whole time, which is kind of what Paris was doing. But I'm not saying it's all because the paddle. I am saying that that paddle. It opens up new shots that if you're playing with, I don't know, maybe like a paddle attack or, you know, something else that I just don't have. I don't have it.

Tyson  26:59
In Do you. Also, you just touched on something there that we saw at major league pickleball this year, but we learned it. I think last year at major league pickleball where the pros started talking about it were the people who the pros who weren't playing singles regularly who were forced to play singles in dream breakers. There were a lot of them who were like, I'm not coming in. And then the people they were playing were like, Oh, I also can't come in because they're passing shots are too good. Yeah, so a lot of baseline play,

Thomas  27:28
but you can take more risk, you have to take more risk is like a female, you know, playing a male player in a dream breaker. Yeah. And that's not sustainable in a full, you know, three, potentially five game match, right? Okay.

Rob  27:43
Okay, in every every dream breaker works. male versus female, the female is playing to win and the male is playing not to lose, which is never a good formula.

Tyson  27:51
Yeah. Okay. So are we going to see with Paris, Todd's gameplay, are we going to see a shift and other people's strategy in playing singles?

Rob  28:04
Well, they're, they're gonna get their strategy playing her.

Tyson  28:08
Yeah. Okay. What can they do?

Rob  28:12
Yeah, it's tough. You have to like Anneliese not, you know, she's got good core coverage. There's no question but yeah, Thomas is right, with that paddle. You could do stuff and it's not just that paddle. It's, it's, you know, it's the carbon it's still Electrum you know, kind of those three that do stuff that other paddles don't, you can create angles that you couldn't do before, right. So you can hit really gnarly angles, getting topspin that just wasn't possible before those paddles came along. Yeah. So yeah, I think things are going to shift because as as we saw with terrorists, like she's got such good control and power with her groundstrokes already that she's really like if you try to come in at the wrong time, and you don't get a good approach shot. She's gonna pass you. She didn't miss a lot. It was impressive.

Thomas  29:02
Yeah, yeah. So you're gonna have to I think

Rob  29:05
instead of on the female side anyways, I don't think things have changed on the on the male side, you're going to you have to return and come in period, the end and you just have to cover the court. On the on the lady side though. Where there's oftentimes less reach. You're gonna see you're gonna have to see women picking better spots to come in. But you still have to come in the this game still wanted to catch in line, in my opinion, even if you're playing pro women's singles. So, the times the Anneli was successful, were the times where, you know, parents left the ball, it's more similar to tennis where, you know, they leave a little bit of a short ball, it's not a few feet from the baseline. It's kind of midcourt and you gotta hit it and come in and I see I saw a lot of approaches going to cut towards like the outside of the courts. I think the better approach is right down the middle where you're eliminating angles for them to pass you So I think I think that's going to be the shift is you still have to come in, but you have to come in on the right ball.

Tyson  30:06
Um, I'll learn. I'll remember that when I play Paris next.

Thomas  30:12
I like to pronounced arms on the podcast.

Tyson  30:16
But I'm just like the I'm like, can I even like, I can't think to do that when I play. I'm just smacking the

Rob  30:20
ball. Yeah. Siebel hippo.

Tyson  30:23
Alright. Well,

Thomas  30:25
I want to talk about so JW and Paris are. They're doing the same thing. But they come at it from a different angle, you can save it. So Paris is like one of these high level tennis players who's coming in and she's playing tennis. And it's working. J dub is more of this, like born on the pickleball, court doubles specialist and single specialist who's kind of doing the thing that we say is eventually going to get phased out. But what of playing both? Yeah, being able to play both like I, what do you think about that? Rob? That's kind of been my that's been my, I've thought that eventually, like the specialization is going to become too strong, and you're not gonna be able to do both?

Tyson  31:11
I think so. But I think there's always going to be the anomaly, the anomaly that is the Deion Sanders or the Bo Jackson, where he's just like, oh, this this person is really good at both. But generally, it's not going to be the case.

Rob  31:24
I think generally speaking, we we have special specialization already. I think there's going to be a handful of players you know, you see like, even Dekel, right, that will come play a great singles. I can play singles, but I don't we just don't, because doubles is kind of, you know, Pickleball is a doubles game. It's a double focus game. There's less emphasis on singles, which is the opposite of tennis, which is a singles focus game. But I think yeah, I think specialization is already happened. I think there's a ton of great singles players that are not good at doubles, or not at the highest level at doubles that are at the highest level and singles like and you're seeing a lot more of that right because some names bro named

Thomas  32:03
Paris Todd, like her doubles game does not mirror that of her singles,

Rob  32:08
doubles just takes longer. She hasn't been playing that long, but her doubles games progressing and she's going to be a great doubles player. So I wouldn't necessarily use her as a perfect example of that because I don't ever see her being a single specialist. Like I could see her being great about being top 10 in both. But on the men's side, there's there's lots like you see fed stocks, Ruud who's coming along like he'll get better doubles to who knows that the highest level Share Bear. Alex Newman is getting better doubles. But he's greatest singles already. Like there's just so many good guys that are in singles quickly because it translates faster than doubles. Doubles takes much like and I saw a post on Pickleball forum. I think Dan Gingrich posted it. But it was like, you know, if you're a pro tennis player, you can get really good at singles be a top pro within three months. But no matter who you are, it will take 12 plus months and doubles. And I think that's a fact. Doubles just takes longer, there's more nuances. It's a different game than tennis, and it takes different shots. And it's just harder.

Tyson  33:12
So, I mean, I initially even was thinking Zane Navratil a year ago, a year and a half ago. Yeah, he was, at that time already making waves as a singles player where you were like he's top singles player, one of the top singles players. And a lot of people were like, Yeah, but doubles he's not like he is level was definitely not as you know, he was like top three singles player. Way before he was top 10. Doubles player. Yeah.

Thomas  33:41
Is he top 10 doubles player top 15. I mean, when you start to think of like, Matt Riley, like you could there's there's a lot of these guys that are doubles players. So I do think I do think that we're talking about who has the premier talent on the double side. So PPA, for sure.

Tyson  34:05
Do you think that pool is the pool is deeper for doubles players? Is that also true because more people are playing or want to play doubles?

Rob  34:13
Yeah, just the men's side in general is super deep. Singles is deep, too. Like I think singles is way deeper on the AP side, to be honest. And honestly, probably, at this point more top heavy. Like I would if you had a PP versus a PPA singles tournament, where it was literally like a team event where you had a BP versus PPA. I'll put money on a

Tyson  34:38
BP like a major league pickleball event where the teams are PPA and a PP. Yeah. Like if

Thomas  34:47
we were to, if we were to say if if we took the top five finishers and we were like which two or constitutes most of those those top five you would say aipp. Are you thinking that JW is also coming? And he's gonna be banned not to.

Tyson  35:02
Yeah take it up I think I think I

Rob  35:05
think for me like a big shift you're seeing for me a big shift between like Jacob and Ben was the US Open where you know kid was way more way more vocal showed way more emotion because I just feel like he knows that it's it's you know it's coming it's come he's that he's at a ceiling at Jacobs not near not nearly there and it's a yeah it's a turning it's a changing of the guard in my opinion.

Tyson  35:33
I mean Travis Travis said those same things last week.

Thomas  35:37
Yeah, I think I've got a I think I might lose 10 bucks. I said two years.

Tyson  35:41
And he you know, he gave you a year though. He said in 12 months if J W is okay, cool. Good and tire little he said he's a little more insulation. Yeah, he said he Travis said guaranteed in two years. J W will be the uncontested favorite of those two.

Rob  35:58
One of those two, there might be somebody else there might be somebody else that's even come in.

Tyson  36:02
Yeah. Have you heard of this Tyson? Apostle guy?

Rob  36:05
No. Okay.

Tyson  36:08
Yeah, nine Tyson. Tyson.

Thomas  36:10
He's the comedic relief around here, Rob, if you?

Rob  36:15
Yeah. No, but I'm saying APB versus PPA. I would say in terms of you know, PPA might be a little bit stronger at the you know, call it the top three, top five. But in terms of like, you know, if you're looking at top 10 to top 15 I think ADP has just way more strength throughout the throughout that

Tyson  36:39
lineup. Okay, talking about the PPA. I bumped into the waters last night. And they're on a seven week break. Yeah. Is that good for those PPA players to take that long of a break? Is that a weird gap? What is? I mean? Yeah, it's unheard of to have a seven week break in the middle of summer for pickleball players is that I

Rob  37:02
remember. I remember seeing that on the schedule. It's like why why is summer so empty? Like, usually this is like, you have a summer swing where it heats up and everybody's playing. Yeah, it's a strange break on the PPA schedule. I don't quite understand it.

Tyson  37:17
There's a reason for it.

Thomas  37:19
I want to say it was like that last year, because I remember being like finally I don't have to travel, like for a couple months or whatever it is

Tyson  37:27
no, there's no reasoning to it. They're not like, Oh, we're giving our players time to reset or do their camps or whatever, and then come back stronger than ever before. They don't like I don't

I don't know. I mean, that's great conference of different backgrounds where that's great, a purposeful break in the middle of the season. Just reset and regroup and come back stronger than you were before and you reach a new plateau. So I was like, Maybe I don't know. I'm just thinking too hard here. Robin the man, can you imagine how exhausting it is to be my brand?

Rob  38:06
No, I don't think there's any rhyme or reason. I think it's just kind of how it played out. And okay. And yeah.

Tyson  38:12
Is it good? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it weird? Is it like, what are your thoughts on it?

Rob  38:17
I think it's I think it's tough, because without getting too much into it, I think even with what was before San Clemente, where they have last Atlanta, yes. Or was it something after so that was why Atlanta was mid May or like 1819, something like that. And then San Clemente was June 9. So you had two kind of big events between those you had the eight BP. You had the eight BP New York, which is kind of the ADPs premier event. And then you had obviously all the hoopla with MLP draft which you guys are obviously there and crushed it and then the NLP actual event in Austin this past week. That's, that's there's a lot of like, you know, just in terms of buzz around the pickleball world. Like if PPA is not hosting tournaments, they're you know, they're quieting down, they like their lead, they're letting the aipp take the spotlight, they're letting MLP take the spotlight, because HPPs gotta get stretch at tournaments right now. And while he's got another event in August, and I think yeah, if they're not hosting events, what are they going to do just post on social to try to drum up interest. It's a perfect opportunity for MLP and ADP to come in and actually, you know, have tournaments, have people watching their players have all of that stuff happening and just creates a buzz and, you know, whether whether they want it to or not, you know, people have really short attention spans and pickleball even even viewers like they remember most what they last watched. So it was a PPA in June and now it's the end of July or August and there hasn't been a PPA. It's like the relevance goes way down in my opinion.

Tyson  39:53
I'm going to also back that up what you just said there. I A film to show was gone six weeks when I came back. I felt like the entire landscape had changed. Like I knew

Thomas  40:09
the Talaat a lot did. It

Tyson  40:11
was crazy, though, but like I came back and then we go to the MLP. And I'm like, I know, the people I knew from six months ago, and I knew their talent then. But I don't know how it translates now with all these new players in the in like, I had like my finger on the pulse of pickleball. I was watching every tournament I could every weekend and stuff like that. And then I come back in six week break, literally from pickleball. And I could not wrap my head around it. And so like that lends credence to you like not seeing these players play for six or seven weeks. Is you do you're gonna forget about them a little bit. Yep, it goes quick.

Thomas  40:53
It's also prime time. I just want to add that in like this is prime pickleball people are playing ball right now. Like, yep. And I'm finally getting back into pickleball. One thing I've noticed lately, everybody before we play is like is your get like, get your duper ready. And I'm like, Are we like, I'm gonna have to compete them because I care about like,

Tyson  41:20
oh, Caden team off when I played I played with Anna Lee last night and Caden was on the side. He's like I'm putting this one on duper. So you guys better like play hardest, like if I score two points on Annalee herb duper is dropping. And here's a skier and mine is skyrocketing. So I'm a seven, five now and she's a four, nine.

Thomas  41:43
But it makes the even the most like casual of games. Competitive. Yep, I'm like, just want to go out there and like rip. Rip some shot. Try some crazy stuff. But if you're doing it on duper now, not pride is on the line.

Tyson  41:57
I mean, when you're almost 43 years old, you just stop caring about that stuff. Thomas shields? Not me. I know. You're not 43 I never once have in my mind had been like, Oh no, my duper thing even when people mentioned the duper thing. I'm like, what is what is will be

Thomas  42:16
here. You want to know why Tyson? Why? Because when we played in Vegas, I went from like a five to down to like,

Tyson  42:24
but you're not a five or something. Yeah, but you're not a five too

Thomas  42:30
tight. Nice and this is cute. This is

Tyson  42:36
a more honest score. And that's what duper does.

Thomas  42:41
I'm a five seven at least.

Tyson  42:43
Okay. Okay.

Thomas  42:46
I played Robin in the pro at the beer city open AP I think it was. How long ago was that? 15. Summer. Yeah. 1515 Nine. I think you guys beat us. We had we had your you were on the road meet. Rob started to Rob was Who Was I playing with? You were playing with Martina Yeah, yeah. And who are you playing with Thomas? Jackie? Jackie Urbinati. Yep. And I look at her. And I go, Rob, Rob's in a bad mental state. I was in

Rob  43:16
a very bad mental space.

Thomas  43:17
I was like he's frustrated. I was like, Let's go at him now. Like, yeah, advantage of this. Like, we didn't win. You guys. We had a we had a good momentum. We were feeling good. I thought I thought we were gonna win. And then Rob was like, nah. But that's the thing is like, when you get in these pro matches, and some of these players when they go when they mentally flip that switch and go, alright, let's turn it on. to a different level. And that's what I

Tyson  43:44
yeah, when they're like I want to win, and I'm gonna win right now. And then it's just like foot on the gas. So Thomas, my challenge to you is next time we're in person. Let's do some shit up, bro. Play some singles for your duper and then we'll get some doubles going for your duper. We're going to play all three. We're going to play mixed. We're going to play same and we're going to play singles. Cool. I am going to destroy your duper bro. I'm bringing it down to under a four.

Thomas  44:11
My my one goal is you're gonna go from one of your dumber knees, which you always telegraph, you're always like, you basically are like, I'm gonna hit an Ernie

Tyson  44:18
and then you hit it to me and I smash it in your crotch. I don't know why. It's telegraphed Sure, but

Thomas  44:24
it works I don't know at night is making up details. But you know, and I'm gonna, here's the, here's the point, you're gonna go for the Ernie. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna just go right at your body and I'm gonna do it and do

Tyson  44:36
it. Because I can see you wind up for that and I already just put my path out and do it Ernie block bro.

Rob  44:43
Got it? I would I would do I would do a pallet paddle challenge before the before any of the matches?

Tyson  44:48
Yeah, no, I definitely will.

Thomas  44:52
For that, yeah.

Tyson  44:54
I'm gonna be like, please check. Thomas shields paddle here and then they'll be like a Over, over, okay, it's it's set in stone, we got to figure out we got to find female counterparts who have equal duper scores or pretty close. And male doubles partners with also equal ish in talent.

Thomas  45:19
Well, the thing about duper is it should correct for that in theory.

Tyson  45:24
Okay, so that won't matter as much. I'm just thinking next time. Next time we're at major league pickleball event, we can find some pros or play with the reserves there and get this on the books. Yeah, I like it. Because you don't respect my game Thomas and I'm gonna make you respect my game.

Thomas  45:42
Good. Good. You got to earn respect. It's true. live you life lesson from a you know, I've gotten all my 23 year old to a 50 year old

Tyson  45:55
almost 43 I've guy always just assumed I got all my respect for free. I don't know why people like dig me so much. But it's just like Day in the Life for Mr. Apostle over here.

Thomas  46:06
I think it's because your your opening line in your first ever survivor. Legendary.

Tyson  46:13
He like that? died.

Thomas  46:15
I was like I was just waiting for Tyson to come on. Cameron, you come on you just you called them

Tyson  46:19
rip it. I just rip it. That's That's enough. Will you rip it? But that was the thing. It was like, I gotta go hard here. Because if, if I can't win the thing, or if I don't win the thing. I have to make waves.

Thomas  46:32
Yeah. Rob, your knee surgery is still coming up. Yeah, booming.

Rob  46:40
Yeah, it's scheduled for Tuesday. But that depends on my appointment tomorrow. And this infection is cleared out. Because if it has it, just kind of keep pushing back the knee.

Tyson  46:51
Yeah. But you know exactly what you have to get done to the knee. What are you doing? Yeah, it's

Rob  46:58
a meniscectomy.

Tyson  46:59
And how did that how did you do that? playing pickleball

Rob  47:03
not playing pickleball so I finished playing next in the NY at the New York aipp went down for like, you know, like a just a deep squat. Just as kind of stretch. As I was coming up. Just felt the pop of my left knee. You know, after I was playing.

Thomas  47:19
Knee injuries are so weird, especially like ACL and meniscus because they always happen when like you least expect it. I had a buddy in high school who like after the play, like, jumped up just to like celebrate and came down didn't jump that high. tore his ACL, my ACL and meniscus running an open field and a soccer game. And just like turned just like cut. Yeah. And just boom.

Tyson  47:47
Are you guys not getting enough electrolytes? What's going on?

Thomas  47:50
How like, let's just say I needed more electrolytes.

Tyson  47:54
Do you rely 100% Yeah, relight. 10 times more electrolytes than the other popular brands in pickleball. And you can get a discount using pickleball at checkout dude. Last night when I was playing with Anna Lee, I was chugging relight to keep me on the court, because it was like over 100 degrees still in the evening time. And it definitely keeps the cramps away. I don't know. Like, Thomas, you're 23 and you're already having like these knee pop issues.

Thomas  48:26
I guess I probably was like, 2022 maybe whatnot.

Tyson  48:30
And were you drinking relate?

Thomas  48:34
No, man.

Tyson  48:36
I mean, I don't want to say anything, because I don't know. I'm not a doctor. I've never had a real I mean, I shouldn't say it. I'm stopping there. Good thing, right, Rob? That was that was gonna lead to No.

Thomas  48:51
You're you're you're linking that in?

Tyson  48:54
I feel like that. That's better for knees. Yeah,

Thomas  48:57
you're more like, yeah, you're more limber. I feel like I feel like tall skinny people are just like more limber and protect those types

Tyson  49:05
really? Because I think there's more leverage to actually hurt yourself with

Thomas  49:11
but yeah, well, we're not a we're not we're not scientists, as evidenced by our inability to watch the Tennis Channel. This Yeah. This past weekend.

Tyson  49:23
Rob, who did you have on your podcast this week?

Rob  49:27
We don't do guests often it was just case you're not

Tyson  49:30
just Casey and you don't minimize don't minimize you to

show the KC and Rob show. We'll have to get a match with us for but it sounds like Thomas doesn't want to be on my team anymore.

Thomas  49:50
No output dude.

Tyson  49:52
Okay. Good. Okay, good. Although I think that Rob is better than both of us. And I also think that Casey is better than both of us.

Thomas  50:04
Your your surgery is Tuesday. Let's rob let's play Wednesday. Let's do a doober wanted to do.

Rob  50:11
Luckily, luckily, Casey is pretty long he can cover the whole court for me. Yeah,

Tyson  50:15
I think if Yeah, I think if it's just us if it's us to versus Casey we can. We'll smash them. We'll get him. Thomas, what else is on the docket? Do we want?

Thomas  50:27
People are playing pickleball naked?

Tyson  50:29
I saw that. People were sharing that with me. I'm

Thomas  50:33
an I went to do some investigation to figure out what's going on.

Tyson  50:37
Oh, you So you went to the source. And we're like, I'll just see if there's really naked people here. I mean,

Thomas  50:43
listen, I know it's this community in I don't even remember where it is. But it's Oh, I forgot how I got there. It's a legitimate nudist community. And so I was like, but I didn't realize so I went to their like website use pictures on the edited are like on their homepage. Just straight up. Naked people

Rob  51:05
just jumping in. They're all pretty old race. There. It's never people that should be naked. Yeah,

Thomas  51:12
exactly. Yeah, I was like, Yeah, so my, somebody sent that to me. And I was like, I feel bad for whoever edited in those like little pickle balls to cover.

Rob  51:22
They Oh, yeah. Good.

Thomas  51:25
Because those same pictures are on the homepage, but just without the pickle balls over over everything. So I I mean, I'm gonna put that time and stare that stared at those pictures for a long time.

Tyson  51:36
You know, I'm making waves and pickleball when people are sending me those articles to like, I had multiple people texting me those articles. Someone just texted. My aunt just texted me that like, Yeah, well, I have like high school friends that are texting me that too. Yeah, I think it's and I mean, this second I saw the picture. I was like, oh, that's just that a nudist colony. They just start figuring out more naked stuff to do together.

Thomas  51:55
I didn't know nudist colonies were like a thing. Like I really I just didn't know. And now. Now I'm aware. So

Tyson  52:02
you I mean, it's the only way that you can really do that without getting arrested and being put on the registry, bro.

Thomas  52:10
I guess it was in like, I assumed it was like somewhere in Europe?

Tyson  52:14
No, there's places like that in the US that exist where everybody just agrees to be naked together. And they're all free and open. And

Thomas  52:20
so like how does that work? Like legally? I don't? Isn't that? I don't know. Aren't they breaking some law?

Rob  52:27
I think it's private. It's private land,

Tyson  52:30
private land. And maybe there's some agreement that you have to like, consider waiver and I don't know, maybe a waiver.

Thomas  52:36
Maybe Maybe Maybe this maybe that you seem to know a lot of a lot of information. Who knows? Maybe

Tyson  52:43
it's Yeah, that's right.

Thomas  52:46
No, WHERE clause and

Tyson  52:49
where my parents live in Utah. There's a nudist, they call it a nudist ranch and you would drive past and there's a sign for it. And it was actually called like, Beaver Creek rudess ranch or something. Beaver Creek? I like Yeah, yeah. And something like that. No free ads here. But they had like a sign on the on the road for a turn off. So like I knew that nudist colonies existed from Yeah. So but I've never gone and checked it out yet. So Thomas, maybe we can get that nudist colony to get us out there and we can do a live pod from

Thomas  53:30
Yeah. Do it on only fans. Okay.

Tyson  53:35
I like where your head's at, bro.

Thomas  53:36
Yeah. Did monetize monetize it? Yeah,

Tyson  53:39
really smart. So, okay, I'm in. Well, I'll meet them.

Thomas  53:44
So, Rob, I realized that. So we walked into Steve Koons house, where you were recording a podcast and I thought it was for freestyle boys. Yeah, but it was Lauren's podcast, because I kept waiting for it to come out on freestyle boys, but you were doing it with warrants pod?

Rob  54:04
Yes. The block through dark.

Thomas  54:07
Thank you for a little Yeah.

Tyson  54:08
Listen, the top pickleball podcasts in the industry from no particular order.

Rob  54:16
Freestyle boys, freestyle Blitz. Oh, no.

Tyson  54:24
And Lorenz is like on Amazon or something

Thomas  54:29
on Amazon. Well, the the the other thing I noticed was I I rewatched. The intro to the draft show in New York, and we did not give Michelle McMahon enough props for because during the during major league pick while she kept calling it the pickleball podcast and like I didn't want to correct her. But during the broadcast she did call it pickle pod. Yeah, and her intro was the hosts of the predominant pickleball pod pickle pod Yeah. And I was like, wow, that was that smell.

Tyson  55:02
She got it was and she deal with her.

Thomas  55:05
Yeah. Yeah. And that's why she's a professional. Hey, we're professionals now too.

Tyson  55:10
We are. She has a great voice for it too. We should actually get her to do our intro. You can't steal that. Rob. I'll talk to Michelle to get us like a really intro where she's like, welcome back to pickle pod.

Thomas  55:23
Michelle's from Michigan. Lauren's from Michigan. I'm from Michigan.

Tyson  55:28
Where's rob from?

Rob  55:30

Tyson  55:32
Okay. And I'm from Utah. So sounds like people aren't from Michigan. Correct?

Yeah, well. I stole his punch line from him before he could say it.

Rob  55:51
He sort of feed it right now. I know. Look at him. He had.

Tyson  55:54
He was so excited.

Thomas  55:56
On my sticky note pad.

Tyson  55:57
Yeah, he probably had that from last week is like I got this lined up. I'm gonna just like totally bury these two.

Thomas  56:03
Yeah. All right. Wait. So Rob, you said you circled on your calendar, like your your, your comeback. So that'll be majorly pickleball than the new port 101.

Rob  56:12
This one's just being aired

Thomas  56:17
tomorrow morning.

Rob  56:18
Sweet. So it depends on my appointment this morning. If I got jolly rancher, I'm sorry.

Tyson  56:25
Yeah. Nice, very professional. As you can expect that the freestyle boys, it's green apple, it's the best. Give us a little review of it. It is the best my wife would agree.

Rob  56:36
So if I get clear tomorrow, surgery on Tuesday, good chance I'll be back for MLP Newport. If I don't get clear tomorrow and don't have surgery Tuesday. It pushed a week. I think MLP is five weeks out from that point. Very difficult to get back. Because my window is six to eight weeks of full return. And I think if I get it on Tuesday at six weeks, and even that would be like intense rehab, which is what I'm planning on doing. But if it gets pushed past next week, it's going to be a real issue.

Tyson  57:07
Okay, five weeks is still do issuable. If you're young and you feel healthy, and you things go well, but yeah, six weeks, definitely better than five

Thomas  57:17
takes out the Jolly Rancher anything for the pod? So what is the fives? What are the fives gonna do for their their fourth?

Rob  57:30
That's a good question. I think there's still a lot of uncertainty in terms of how the Supplemental Draft drops trades is going to play out with MLB. I think we'll know more probably probably the end of June, early July. So there's a few thoughts with injured players. I don't know if stones still going to be injured or not. But there's thoughts on having like an injured reserve or I hold my spot. But they still fit, they still add a player for the game. Yeah. Or if I, you know, not a good situation for me. If they're like, Oh, he's injured, he can't play so they just straight up drop me. And then another team has to take it. Another team has to take a chance on me being healthy for Newport, or I just get left out for Newport. So I don't know, I think there's there's a way, there's a few different ways it could go. It would be the saddest thing in the world. If I got dropped by the fives. I do the most intense rehab in the world after my surgery on Tuesday. I'm super healthy for Newport.

Tyson  58:29
I just I'm not on a team. You get re drafted by another team.

Rob  58:33
I'd be okay, as long as I was on a team, but like the heartbreaking thing would be if I got dropped and nobody picked me up because of the risk of me not being healthy. Yeah. And then I am healthy. Right? I would just then I would just hope I would never hope somebody else got injured. But it would be it would be a bummer.

Tyson  58:49
But then you'd be even hungrier for the October event.

Rob  58:53
No. Well, sure. But no, but it will take it will take a while to get over my sadness

Tyson  58:59
could gain that hunger. Thomas. Yes. You texted me an article. Do we want to talk about that article?

Thomas  59:09
We can I I don't have a ton to say about it.

Tyson  59:16
The anonymous anonymous pros. Yeah. Anonymous pros and the carbon paddle fiasco.

Thomas  59:21
Yeah. I so my biggest takeaway was like,

Tyson  59:26
well, just like really sum it up for our listeners really quick, like, so that because what

Thomas  59:31
is it? I couldn't even like I couldn't even like there was a lot in there. But essentially, it was just like so the the theory, the original theory that carbon was sending different paddles to USA pickleball than they were selling people. There are. I mean, there's good authority that that actually was the case USA pickleball wasn't being transparent. They were testing behind the scenes they were issuing warnings that they weren't being honest Just about, and there was just a lot more going on behind the scenes that if I'm a pro, and there isn't advantage to having a carbon paddle, I'm saying it's unfair that I have to play against this thing. If it even gives my opponent the slightest of advantages. If I'm another paddle brand, I'm saying, this is BS, because carbon, if Garmin gets away scot free, whatever it is, they go unharmed through this whole thing. Working on they, that's the best marketing and PR campaign ever. Right? And they get to capitalize on that. And if I'm another brand, who's playing by the rules, I'm saying this is this is unfair. But again, it's all conjecture. I know, obviously. So it's anonymous to everybody else. Not anonymous to me. I believe what's being said, but I don't know. I wasn't in those conversations. And I think it's up for the the people to, to, to decide. My I don't I don't even think like I don't I just think USA pickup was a mess. And I think they mishandled this thing. Like they mishandled a million things. And I think they're like, basically like they're laying the opportunity for some other organization to come in and just say we want to be the USA pickleball. We want to be the governing body of the end, whatever the distinction about where the new authority. Yeah, and yeah, that really was my my biggest takeaway was like here, USA pickleball. Again, like, you know, they're just not being forthright.

Tyson  1:01:38
Rob, do you have? Did you read the article? Do you have any thoughts on it? Do you eyebrows get into it?

Rob  1:01:44
No, I'll get into anything. I just Yeah. I mean, like what Thomas said, like, if you're another paddle could be so like, to me that that article made sense. If I'm a paddle company, pissed off at the way it was handled, because you know, carbon was, whatever, intentionally doing bad things, whatever. But like, I don't understand the purpose of like a pro, writing that article and submitting it like, well, I just don't understand the purpose. Like what are they trying to get out of it? Like it's already been settled? Like, just trying to reveal how much of a mess USA Pickleball is? Everybody knows. So yeah, I just didn't understand kind of the intention of what they were trying to accomplish. But yeah, if it was a paddle company, somebody that article makes a lot of sense. Well, it's to play devil's advocate here.

Tyson  1:02:33
If you're a pro that's playing against carbon paddles, and they are still a clear advantage and nothing's changed or they change. That's not

Rob  1:02:41
what it said. Right, was that the article said that paddles are still illegal. But because they have a new batch where it's right, yeah, nificantly less. Okay. Okay, so as a pro, I don't care. They've like, I thought I thought carbon did an excellent job actually handling the whole mishap, okay, in terms of like, the way they treated their customers. Like, every comment I ever saw by anybody that had bought a carbon paddle was was this is epic. This is perfect. Thank you for taking care of it. Like I thought, you know, and their delivery time was quick, too. Yeah, that's a big, it's a big PR hit to you know, that's a lot of bad publicity for carbon as a new company, and a big financial hit, because there's a lot of paddles in circulation that people can't use anymore. So as a new company, I thought they handled it as well as a could. Oh, I

Tyson  1:03:27
know a lot of people still using those paddles. Yeah, of course.

Rob  1:03:32
I was gonna use that in your unsanctioned duper.

Tyson  1:03:35
I know, that's why we're here. We got a challenge. We got a challenge immediately. Okay, yeah. So you're saying that yeah, everybody already knew that USA. Pickleball is a mess. So that article coming out is just basic redundancy.

Rob  1:03:49
Yeah. And we keep pushing that. It's a fact.

Thomas  1:03:53
That's why we didn't like necessarily add any commentary was just like, This is what we got. If Yeah. If I wouldn't

Rob  1:04:01
spend my time reading that article, because I didn't. I don't think it's like, one. I don't think it's very groundbreaking. Or, like, wow, that's not shocking. Not shocking. Anybody? Yeah. Right. It was just like, I don't know what I was trying to

Thomas  1:04:12
accomplish. Yeah, it was just like, confirming what everybody pretty much already thought. And, yeah, so I've been generally though, like, if you're within the industry, you're an organization, you're a player. And you've got something to say like, if it's relevant. Well, we'll give it the platform. Yeah, like that. But, yeah, so now I think, I don't know. We'll see. I think people are just gonna move on. Be like, yeah, that's what I thought. Okay.

Tyson  1:04:48
Yeah, I mean, okay. Okay.

Rob  1:04:51
One thing I mentioned in my podcast was, like, so much talk about carbon, but, and this is gonna look like a monologue. The, like a Ebola spree, but like, I'm not like I don't I don't care. I just think I just find it very interesting that everybody forgot how quickly like there's two videos on Yola, that showed it being over roughness. And like everybody forgot about that really quickly, right? Like with the whole carbon stuff because you had that video at the US Open which you had the USA pickleball paddle tester, the official guy saying, Oh, that one's gonna be over, you don't want me testing that or whatever he said. And then you had the yellow owner doing the video on his thing where his math is wrong. And all the math actually was over roughness and but it was within the plus or minus five cent discrepancy. But I guess so my point on the on the podcast I recorded yesterday on freestyle was not going to tell you you have to listen to the freestyle. Oh, no. What a teaser. It's,

Tyson  1:05:52
I already have it downloaded notes.

Rob  1:05:54
So the point was that all of these companies that are pushing the envelope in terms of roughness, like none of the manufacturers are, are good enough to have the exact same roughness on every single panel that comes off the assembly line. So pushing the envelope to where they're pushing it, you're gonna have Pat, you're gonna have like, basically, what I said was Electrum carbon Yola, I guarantee you, if you take, you know, 20 paddles or 100 paddles in circulation, you're gonna have many of them that are probably over roughness. So I don't know, I think you know, the carbon is latest batch, just from what other players are saying. The roughness is way down. So it seems like they're not skirting that line as much, which I think is what companies should do, right? Because there's no way to test every single paddle coming off the line in every batch.

Tyson  1:06:44
Yeah, they just or they need to be more strict on what the actual parameters are, and be like, you have to be under this number. Right? So, yeah, Tom has put his shades on, which means he's done talking. And he probably wants to tell us about his sunglasses, which he wears indoors. Because Rob, I don't know if you know, this. Sun never stopped shining on a cool, dude.

Thomas  1:07:11
Thank you. Yeah. Well, here's why I like shady race. Okay, I used to live next to sunglasses store in Manhattan. And they were very, very expensive, but they were awesome. And I would spend quite a bit of money buying these shades. And I've lost multiple pairs. Now. Everybody has that store. Shady Ray's will literally replace for free. A lost or broken pair? We'll send you a new one.

Tyson  1:07:45
How do you prove it's lost?

Rob  1:07:47
You don't have it? Yeah.

Thomas  1:07:50
No. Good question Dyson. So that's a cool email right now.

Tyson  1:07:58
That's what I'm saying. That's a pretty cool thing that they do there for you. Yeah.

Thomas  1:08:02
But they also provide 10 meals, to fight hunger in America with every order, and they've donated over 20 million meals to date. So you can look good in your shades and feel good about making an impact. I

Tyson  1:08:16
like that I'm willing to support a business that is willing to give back.

Thomas  1:08:21
So if you guys do want to get some shady Ray's go to Shady Ray's dot com and use code dink all caps for 50% off two or more pairs of polarized sunglasses. 50% off. I think I read that last time and didn't even think about that. That's pretty good

Tyson  1:08:38
fit to present a steep discount. Yeah, they

Rob  1:08:39
give you free sunglasses, if you lose that 50% Yeah, basically, you get

Thomas  1:08:43
unlimited sunglasses.

Tyson  1:08:44
So you're getting two pairs of sunglasses. For 50% off of one pair of sunglasses to minimum. I lose a lot of stuff. But do they? I'm assuming they only replaced the last pair one time. Oh, that's just like mathematically in my head. They can't like, be like, Okay, here's another one at every month or just like we're just going to put you on a subscription where we send you a pair knowing you're going to lose them once a month. So cool. Well, Thomas, you know, I'll be checking that out. Right now. Yeah. And so Rob, anything else? Thomas before we close? No Rob closing statements that sir. Rob doesn't have anything. Thanks for tuning in. I've got very important stuff going on this weekend but it's top secret and Thomas is so jealous.

Rob  1:09:33
90 day fiance the follow up

Tyson  1:09:37
the reunion. Excited end to this thing, Thomas

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