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Pickleball Lives Here

It Feels Right Ep 13: Breakups and Betrayal

by The Dink Media Team on

Rob and Stone weigh in on the USAP Nationals drama. A partner controversy involving Catherine Parenteau and Allyce Jones set the picklesphere on fire. The guys cover the live stream, USAP policy and stories from the road. Stone may be retiring but Rob’s comeback tour is just getting started.


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Show Notes

2:30 Stone runs through the Allyce Jones timeline
8:18 Who's to blame?
12:48 Within the rules or at least the tournament director's discretion
19:30 Questions for USA Pickleball
23:24 Recalling the US Open Paddlegate
27:20 Can’t beat the Nationals atmosphere
32:38 Livestream wins and woes
38:30 Stone goes back to his good cop roots
47:41 Nationals results and experience
52:00 Tales of the road with Jay Devilliers and Johnny Goldberg
57:22 Yo! We playing with a Franklin
1:02:03 Listener Q&As
1:18:33 Rob makes his comeback


Hello, Robert, how are you?

Rob  0:07
I'm lovely. I just like that. The first communication we had other than not getting your mic to work was Robert, press the button, press the record button. Now

Adam Stone  0:16
press the button. Let's record it.

Rob  0:17
We've got stuff to say. This is a this is a big pod.

Adam Stone  0:21
Hey, I just wanted to let you let the viewers at home know that. It's like 4:30am. Where you are, it's dark outside your commitment to the pod is just next level. We all appreciate that.

Rob  0:33
Could could could we say unparalleled?

Adam Stone  0:35
unparalleled? Correct? Yeah, Rob, we got a man it was. It was it was a spicy weekend. Pickleball be played at the nationals. Don't want to forget about that. But quite quite a situation. Yeah, so I have lots happening. Yeah, I'll have to say I was actually the first person to make a post. I had never really done something like that publicly before.

Rob  1:07
No. That's not what you do. You're behind the scenes low key, you don't really cause of fuss. And Adam, I like the side of you where you raise concerns and issues. And you get a conversation started because you know what conversations and pickleball are important, especially when it comes to stuff like this. So thank you for get

Adam Stone  1:25
well I appreciate that, Robert. I mean, I had to get prof to help me to know how to post. Post so yeah, so it was basically I kind of the kind of waffle back and forth. actually messaged at least Jones early in the tournament because we did the breakdown in the preview for nationals. And we knew that Elise was playing with Katherine. So I saw the draw. I saw the draw. And it was Catherine and Anna Lee. And I kind of messaged Elise, and I was like, Hey, do you have any details on this partner switch and women's doubles? I have no doubt something shady went on. And then she of course was like, Oh, let me tell you. And so we kind of had a we kind of had a back and forth had a couple pros that I'm absolutely not going to name text with me a little bit. Just about like kind of what's going on. And

Rob  2:14
before before we get into the nitty gritty of like, like reactions, what happened let's let's just give some context to people that might like because not everybody's not aware that listens is super aware of necessarily like what happened or what what went on. So you mind given just some context around the whole scenario, I suppose.

Adam Stone  2:34
Well, actually, you know what, I have a little at least Jones just did an Instagram response to she did a big post talking about nationals. And then she did a detailed response to someone who commented and so basically what happened was okay, so her and Megan DS on her normal partner, at least Jones tried to sign up for the tournament about a month ago. They were denied entry. And you know, they didn't think much of it. They knew they were late so they couldn't get in whatever they missed. This is a whole this is a whole issue within itself. But continue Oh, big time. Me you Corinne car all tried to get in this tournament about around the same time and we were denied and I didn't really think much of it, Robert Yeah. And I was like, we were late, whatever. So we understood that we were late and moved on then the week of the tournament, Catherine asked me to play and I agreed USA pickleball let Catherine and I register and get in which was frustrating to me and Megan from there but but I decided to play with Catherine then once Lee got hurt Catherine and Anna Lee started talking and I have some pretty solid I mean I didn't see it but some pretty solid information that before Lee was even off the court. Athena was talking to Mr. Waters. I have to say I heard I mean just cut throat right on it before they even knew like full fledged details about lease entry which is entries are the frickin worst. Please Lee hope it's not too serious. Then once we got Catherine I started talking so then so then they just needed to chat with me as I walked up to Catherine's manager and Anna Lee Papa waters. I knew this was already a done deal knowing Katherine's history with dropping partners. So what was the point of throwing a fit? No point. So I said I was fine with it. As long as me and Megan DS on could get into the tournament. Katherine's manager said she would make that happen at 4:30pm The day before the tournament started. As I started processing the whole situation myself, Megan Dijon and some other pros thought it was jacked up to do a last minute switch. If anything I would need to find a partner that wasn't already in a partnership. I told the turn tournament director at 6pm that that situation was messed up Hold on one second, but if he did make the decision then he better let me and Megan play for sure. However, Megan D's on already had plans to be with her family and she decided to play shows she declined to play and told the tournament director she was not an option around 7pm Then I got a call from Catherine parentals manager Athena at 930 that Anna Lee and Catherine Pinto were allowed to play. I then asked since I didn't have a partner if CP and owl could partner at another upcoming tournament and it was declined with

Rob  5:38
this so this is 9:30pm the night before they're playing correct chi Correct?

Adam Stone  5:42
Okay, I with frustration I quickly got off the phone with Catherine parentals manager I asked for only my expenses to be paid for and Catherine print those manager agreed which worked out which I was truly grateful for even though I lost the chance on competing for money so the money was not offered blood money. Yeah. Well the funny thing is that the money the money wasn't offered as like a peace offering it was asked for by Elise at the last moment so just just crazy sequence of events that all these things can happen late into the evening the day before a tournament and Catherine parentals manager has the pull to make things happen with the draw and whatever else so just after this this message is a little bit more detailed Robert was already obviously not okay but even with some of these extra details even more ridiculous So

Rob  6:42
yeah, that's a timeline makes it worse in my opinion. Yeah. For at least to be going to bed not knowing whether or not her partner is going to play with her to the next day is terrible.

Adam Stone  6:52
Yeah, no, absolutely. So that's that's basically the story in a nutshell. And and like, and like you said, Rob, there's, there's multiple, like little things that aren't great about this. It's not just the whole thing as a whole there's little compartmentalize to little things that are very bad as well. So you know, it's, it's, it's too bad. And

Rob  7:16
who's I see I see a lot of blame being placed at different places, right, I still blame and rightfully so being placed on Katherine and Athena. I see, you know, some some blame being directed towards USA pickleball in the tournament director who is that done? Pavan, I believe it is Don Pavan, not his first controversy this year, if I remember the US Open debacle of you know, saying paddles are going to pass and the little video. So So Don's on the spotlight and welcome back down. And then then, then thirdly, we have blame being placed towards and leave which, or let's just say the waters, you know, Anneliese, what, 1516 years old, she will say the team, but her parents have a responsibility here to also do the right thing, in my opinion. And I don't think they did that. And I don't I don't think any of the parties did the right thing. Where do you think blame should be placed at them? Or what what do you think things broke down? And what what should have happened?

Adam Stone  8:19
Yeah, I mean, I would probably say, I would probably have to say maybe even, it's tough, I would put the waters last. Maybe that's incorrect, but I would put the waters last and I would put USA pickleball and Kathina. Number Number One. So I mean, I have I mean, you everyone or a lot of these people that are going to be watching this have obviously seen a lot of the posts and a lot of the comments and whatever and, and I have a very rough history. With Katherine's behavior to partners. Not only did she inappropriately dropped my wife, but my good friend Joey Farias, and the only reason I'm saying those two names is because they they said it publicly. Yeah. And there is a ridiculous amount of more people that I will not say anything if they want to come forward. Great, but I'm not going to say anything specific about those people that haven't commented publicly. So that's the only reason I'm using Korean car and Joey Ferris and let's be clear, switching partners and possibly committing to a long term thing and realizing it's not going to work out and then making a reasonable switch is something that happens quite a bit. Yeah, I had the same thing happened with me with deco bar this year. And you know, we were in different places. He was right I kind of Of course I got a little sad just because we only had one or two bad tournaments and then we started discussing partly breaking up but it was very cordial. It was hey, he was like man, I'm not gonna leave you hanging in we're up we're gonna continue to play for these three or four months and then you know the second half of the year I'm I would I want to play with someone else and I was completely okay with it. And, you know, he didn't leave me hanging a week or two or a day or two before and there was a ridiculous amount of communication between us leading up to that to that breakup. So, I mean, I've spent many hours of my life talking to people, especially Corinne, about the injustices that Catherine has done to people. And it's just, it really just burns me up. And to see this whole situation, it really, really, really was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. And the main reason why I posted even the situation's terrible on its own, I never would have posted anything if this was an isolated incident. This is a crazy, crazy body of work. And disrespect to so many people that are important to me over the past two or three years that I just I literally could not take it and I had to post something. And I got a lot of run with my post a lot of good comments from a lot of people, but really kicked into gear when Dan Gingrich who has a very significant online platform, when he when he posted something as well, it really took off and, you know, I man, it's it was kind of intense and whatever on Saturday when it was all happening, but, you know, it's it was a lot of piling on and I didn't even feel 100% comfortable with it, even though I completely stand by everything I said. And it was a lot. It was a lot it was a lot and I was just like, man, you know, this is you know, first half of Saturday, I was like good this is getting the run that it needs second half of end of Saturday and beginning of Sunday, especially I was just like man that you know, this is man they are really piling on right now. But then of course Elise gives the the exact details in this Instagram post. And it's even worse than I realized so

Rob  11:53
on. And at the same time just watching that golden metal match yesterday, like it like made me sick. It gave me like a bad twinge in my stomach watching them compete for a gold medal. Actually, ya know, like, I was like, they shouldn't even be out there like, and they're like pumping each other up. It's like, it just made me a little sick to my stomach.

Adam Stone  12:10
know for sure I don't blame you at all for that. So, yeah, so I would say from just just completely isolating this, this one, this one specific situation, I would say USA pickleball and Kathina are are equally to blame at the top and nothin. There's nothing to be said about the waters, but I would definitely put them at a fairly distant third, to be honest.

Rob  12:36
What like what do you say to the people that because I've seen a lot of this, it's it's like, you know, everybody's saying, Well, you know, it's within the rules. Even Don Stanley said, Well, this is this is 100% within the rules, and she had every right to do this. Okay. Just because something's in and it wasn't actually within the rules. It was within a tournament term and directors discretion, which what's what's that mean? Right? You can do whatever you want, essentially, right? Like that should go away. But what about what do you say to the people that are like, well, she was she was in the rural she's, she's a professional athlete. She's competing for a gold medal at national she's competing for money. This is a business. This is her livelihood. What do you say the people that are that are defending? You're saying that stuff?

Adam Stone  13:21
Right? Well, technically, I don't with the way it's worded. I don't believe it's within the rules, either. Right, technically how it's worded. Now, there's that common those two words that you said, turn two or three words tournament director discretion? You know, that's obviously the greatest of areas possible, but I think technically, with the way it's worded, it's not okay, what happened? So, sure, I think there's a lot of people that that don't know, the backstory, and you know, didn't know this timeline of events and how so many fairly accomplished players were completely denied entry. And then Katherine Athena can just make some things happen. 4:30pm, and all of a sudden,

Rob  14:02
up to 9:30pm, up to nine was when the approval got through.

Adam Stone  14:06
So so what I would say to your statement, Robert, is if all of these people have all of the information now that we're talking about, and that's posted by Elise Jones here, then I think that they're ridiculous. And if they had a little sliver of information, then you know, okay, that's cool. I get I respect your opinion, and, you know, I kind of get where they're coming from, but when you when you have all the facts, if you think that that what happened was okay, then I think that's just rough on you.

Rob  14:37
Yeah. And at the same time here, we're, you know, I saw some other people saying, well, it's it's no issue with the quote unquote, manager, Athena reaching out to Elise and not Catherine. That's absolutely not okay. Right. Like, they're like, you know, this is a pro sport. Look, this is pickleball. You know, let's, let's settle down. We're having an order. This isn't this isn't the Super Bowl. This isn't whatever even if this was tennis and like, you two P two players have respect for each other, which I assume Katherine and Elise have respect for each other did. The least you can do is have a conversation. My God, I don't care how shy you are. I don't care how uncomfortable it is. You have the conversation period

Adam Stone  15:21
and a story. Right. I agree with you, Robert. And I think it probably this almost nothing that I'm saying is speculation. But I this is speculation that Catherine knew it was wrong and thought it was wrong and had had a fina had to Fina do it for because she didn't want to deal with it. And I think that that actually says a lot. So if that's exactly the case, or what her mindset was. So I think that that says a lot and yeah, just just it's just like you said, when you were watching the match, it just kind of it just makes my skin crawl. And it's it's just it's just not okay. And it's just too bad. Especially for you know, I'll tell you what, they did this to the wrong person. Because Elise is very much

Rob  16:07
is the sweetest girl on tour. Right? And yeah, right. What was wrong person?

Adam Stone  16:11
She's like, she's smaller than everyone. She tries harder than everyone. She works harder than everyone. And she's very much loved in the community. So this just added another dimension to it. For sure as as the support for her was overwhelming.

Rob  16:28
Yeah. People came out in droves. Yeah, honestly, honestly, I did feel bad when it's all piling on. But I've that timelines just it's unacceptable. It's ridiculous

Adam Stone  16:40
is what acceptable. And I just man, USA pickleball. It's just so rough. Like how I mean, these, there's, there's just the rule has to change, whether you consider the wording of the rule or not, the rule must change and there has to there cannot be gray area.

Rob  16:59
And I don't I don't even give a shit if the rule changes to be honest. Because it's just do the right thing. Human beings, like, just do the right thing. Like don't don't be a bad person.

Adam Stone  17:12
Yeah, no, I'm with you. And yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it was a lot. It was a lot,

Rob  17:19
because this is what's happening, right? Like her brand, her reputation is damaged. Now, it is like people people aren't going to forget, like, this is a this is going to be you know, there'll be new, there'll be new drama and new things that come in new things that happened, but people people won't forget this. I don't think you know, it's little things that people will bring with them like, oh, yeah, I remember when she did that to Elise and like that, you know, you made you made some money in the gold medal match, but I would guarantee it's a net loss overall.

Adam Stone  17:47
Yeah. Right. And I think it's, yeah, I think it's, you know, it says a lot with at least whatever at least his little sentence was that said, Oh, I saw Catherine Athena and Anna Lee and Papa waters talking. And it she knew with with Catherine's history of behavior, she knew as soon as she saw that little group of people talking, apparently, very shortly, shortly after Lea waters got seriously injured. She and she knew it was over. And that's I think, you don't

Rob  18:18
think you don't think they were checking on how he was doing?

Adam Stone  18:21
I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I wasn't there.

Rob  18:26
Maybe a Tina was going over there to see if she could, you know, call for help.

Adam Stone  18:30
Right. I don't think that that was, like I said, for that. That was secondhand information. Yeah, I obviously did not

Rob  18:38
see that. So I also heard that from several different pros.

Adam Stone  18:43
Okay. Oh, several. Okay, good. Yeah. So there you go. Yeah. And so, because there are some great pickleball this weekend, Robert, and you know, I think a lot of people are gonna remember this situation more than the great pickleball and that's just too bad.

Rob  18:59
Yeah. What do you think estrus estrus under that golden medal for them?

Adam Stone  19:05
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Asterisk for sure. Okay, what does it ask Asterisk?

Rob  19:14
Asterisk, asterisk, asterisk. Thank you remember, you know, I mean, your pronunciation is perfect. Flawless.

Adam Stone  19:22
Yeah. Well, okay, so what else are we gonna talk

Rob  19:25
about? I think I think we'd go into a little bit of the black hole that is the USA pickleball. Yeah, I mean, I know we touched on it a little bit in terms of, of, you know, us trying to get in Michigan and Elise trying to get in. And I mean, we're not talking we're not talking three days before. I mean, we're talking a significant amount of time before the tournament starting. And I talked about this, I think maybe in a prior episode of, you know, this isn't this is an ongoing issue also with other with other tours. You know, I haven't had especially with PPA, but a PP, I've definitely seen seen it and had it happen to me where it's tough to get in. Even though they need the players, even though it's good for the tournament, like I think I even mentioned like VIV tried to get into a couple last year and it was too late. So they wouldn't let her in. And they just give, they give great players a hard time for whatever reason trying to get into their tournament to help promote the sport of pinball and their tour and compete. And it's like guys, like, you know, have a little bit more flexibility for everybody, not just for hand selected people that you want to allow in. So many pros tried to get in could not get into nationals, for whatever reason, I think, what would you say Adam, there are 24 teams in the men's doubles drop. It was

Adam Stone  20:45
like low to mid 20s. And I was told when I tried to get in that were stacked at 32 Can't do it. So basically, I was told will check got a message back. Sorry, can't do it. Were at 32 kept. So obviously, let's be clear. I watched our old episode and I say obviously too much. But that's so

Rob  21:07
hold on. I just don't stop your thought. But I also had a realization of something I do. But it's I didn't know some of the podcasts. I say for the word ALS. Oh. Also, like I pronounce it like AOL T zo. Like

Adam Stone  21:21
also. Yeah, that's interesting.

Unknown Speaker  21:24
I don't know about that one. Also, also. Okay.

Adam Stone  21:27
I think it's like your I think yours is worse than mine. Actually, thank you for making me feel they

Rob  21:31
might be actual speech impediment. So

Adam Stone  21:36
yeah, so. Right. So and I know, I don't, obviously we know what Elise said in her post. But I don't even know exactly what the situation was with Collins brother, and trying to get in and then wasn't in and then was in again, obviously, Collins brother and Catherine ridiculous body of work. You know, they are, you know, better players than a lot of the players that tried to get in. But there is I mean, Corinne is very decorated, myself. I mean, I've won 35 Plus nationals and singles and doubles. Granted, this was, you know, a couple years ago, but it's not like it was just some five I was trying to get in the tournament. These are like legit pros. How can there be that big of a discrepancy? discrepancy on favoritism when we're talking about legit pros, and then an Elite Pro? So there might only be, you know, whatever, five or 10 or 15 ranking spots between you know, Katherine and some of the people that are trying to get in it's not like it's it's scrubs trying to get in and then pros trying to get in. It's very much not that

Rob  22:39
100%. So fix it be better. USA pickable. It's a joke. It's an absolute joke.

Adam Stone  22:46
Yeah. And that's it. And just to get back to my good cop routes, it's not like this, Oregon. It's not like this organization has not done a lot for pickleball and plenty for pickleball. But they do have to make it a little cleaner and clean up their act and situations like this, would you would you please refresh my memory? On the specific US Open stuff? I know the general of what happened with the paddle testing and whatever else. Do you have any more information on that? Robert?

Rob  23:17
Yeah, I believe I believe. So a couple of things happen. That's when carbon that's when the carbon stuff went down. The battle stuff, I believe it was Collins brother that that complained and brought that to light and did like a rant they did did the random test on the spot. And like it was sketchy testing. And, you know, they made us a pickleball made an unprecedented move of not like warning or not like trying to get those just an all out ban of the paddle. which, let's be honest, that that that had to like carbon handled that really well. But it's had to have very much negatively affected their business. You know, they're not sponsoring nearly as many pros as they were before. They had a lot of pros with the paddle. They took a big hit. And that was a USA pickleball. As far as I'm concerned as the USA pickleball decision there, I know Don pavement was on site and then and then a bunch of paddles, you know, started getting tested because they had the little the start little roughness tester there. So there's a video that somebody recorded of Don Pavan testing, I think a Yola and saying, Oh, you don't want me to test that. That's not going to pass. And then and then. Like, nothing happened with it.

Adam Stone  24:40
Yeah, right. Right. So

Rob  24:41
interesting stuff. But just, yeah, Don Pavan hasn't had very, had a very good year in the public eye.

Adam Stone  24:50
Right. So, so, Robert, do you think that having maybe a player Council A player committee with a variety of levels of pros kind of teared off would be something that could I mean, it should probably just be cleared up either way, by by these by these entities. But do you think that that is something that could help this process? And kind of if there is a little gray area with, with the entities making the decisions that the player counselor or the player, whatever could could make that a little cleaner for those entities?

Rob  25:31
Yeah, I don't think it would hurt. I mean, having having players have different rankings is kind of what the ATP does. I think they have a couple players that are, you know, top 25 and top 50, top 75, top 100 And it keeps going down. So the show, you know, players of all rankings are represented within that council, I think that makes a lot of sense. I just I don't know, in terms of these instances, what that wouldn't necessarily accomplish other than working with USA pickleball. And saying, you know, you know, and having unified voice, right. So, hopefully, hopefully it gets corrected. But yeah, I think players coming together and having having a council or a union would always always be a good thing. You know, we've had a lot of fragmentation in the sport wood players on different tours, players have been having different values based on those tours and different incentives based on those tours. So it's been pretty difficult in terms of having a unified front, and pickleball. Hopefully, the MLP and vibe merger will help bring some of the PBA players and the AAP MLP players together more. We shall see. But I think yeah, I think a unified front is necessary. And I think Casey Pat, has talked about that for a while. And it's something we need to do for sure.

Adam Stone  26:43
Oh, okay. That's the so I bought into some podcasting. And I think I saw a post about a player union of some sort. And I think I saw him get tagged in that. So yeah, okay, so that makes sense. I did not know that he was kind of an advocate for that. Because that's what they did beach volleyball. Right, right. And I've heard I heard people in the comments on some of the threads, talking about how beach volleyball partnerships are kind of Shi T show as well. And there's a lot of the similar drama that has kind of, you know, unfolded here in pickleball as well. So yeah, so that, Okay, y'all, I just wanted to hear your views on that. And, you know, maybe that's, that's a direction that we need to head if, you know, it's unfair things keep happening. So

Rob  27:30
yeah, I mean, I just don't know how relevant USA Pickleball is going to be.

Adam Stone  27:37
Yeah, no, I gotcha. But I'll tell you what it's been a couple years or two years since I've been to Nationals man has a pretty place awesome facilities looks unreal, the courts are sweet it man, it was beautiful. It really was. And, you know, always through a four day or this one, even more than a four day tournament, there's going to be some ups and downs with the, with the crowd, but man, when that played, that place was almost filled up a couple different times. And you know, that's, that's cool to see some real real stands and some real fans in the stands. And it seemed like it was a pretty good atmosphere from from what I saw on the stream. So

Rob  28:13
out um, you know what I like about like a tournament like nationals and like the US Open, outside of like all the stuff that happens with pro players and how they get treated all that stuff, forget the set that stuff aside. What I like about nationals and US Open. And even how TOC used to be is that they were standalone events, and not part of the not part of the tour in respect to you know, you could be playing, you could be outside of the different likes championship court. If you're watching on stream, you could be watching the Austin open PBA, Austin open versus the PBA Cincinnati and not really see much of a difference not really understand how it's a different tournament. I like how nationals has its own branding. I like how the US Open has its own branding. Same with TOC before it was PPA like it and it's not just its own branding and its own look and feel. It's also the anticipation of that stop for a year for a year each time for you know, there's that tournament ends 365 more days, it'll happen again. And there's a lot more anticipation that builds up for that. So I think there's something to be said about like, you know, these tour stops in these cities taking some ownership of of the tournament. In some sense. I don't mean ownership in terms of like business equity. I don't know what it looks like. I don't even know how the ATP does it for example, but I just love the fact that if you watch like, you know, different tour stops in tennis. It doesn't just feel like another stop on the ATP tour if it had that that tournament has its own sense and feel and brand and it's that cities tournament. You know what I mean? Those people look forward to it every year. Yeah, so I just wonder how that can be replicated in pickleball because it's really special in nationals. You can see it and as well as the US Open

Adam Stone  29:59
and we can And we can use this word again. Dare I say there's good vibes at those tournaments? Yes. Oh, there we go. But no, I totally agree. And it's just another one another one, another one. And then you have a special one. And I do think the build is real, like people will plan their vacations for these specific tournaments, amateur players, and there's, there's a sense of, of it building and you know, it's going to happen again next year. And it's a special tournament, it's a little different, different, you know, energy, different vibe, different, whatever the case may be different vendors. But I think that's a really a really great statement. And I think that I think that's absolutely true. And it does make a difference and make it a little more special.

Rob  30:42
Yeah. Can you see it with the AP to like, every every tournament feels a little bit the same? Right. And it's, it's a little disorienting for players? Sure. Like, where am I this week? Everything looks the same. We've got the same backdrop, the same everything. The same vendors, the same tense, the same players area, just a little bit of a different stand. And oh, there's a waffle house. You know, that's all mostly the same.

Adam Stone  31:04
Right, right. Yeah. And, yeah, I mean, that's, I mean, I don't think that that's bad. I think it's great that that's happening, but I do think it is a little different. When the tournament is like what you're talking about. So

Rob  31:18
add another, I've got another point I want to talk about, but I need to refill on coffee real quick.

Adam Stone  31:22
Okay. Well, I'll talk about I really liked the the three court situation was to go into Oh, excellent. Okay, well get your copy. Good Cop. Good Cop. Okay. Yeah, I'll be good cop. So yeah, I thought that the three stream situation was awesome. So many deep draws and high level players and fantastic matches to to only get that one quart, you're definitely missing some action. So to be able to kind of bounce around, pick a match that you like, pick, pick up a player that you're a big fan of and be able to watch, you know, maybe their second or their third round match. I think that that was that was that was really nice. And I took it I took advantage of that throughout the day's viewing. So kudos to them for doing that and giving the viewers a variety of choices to tune into. I don't have pants on, you know, why would you I don't think that's a shocking statement. I think standards

Rob  32:25
podcast, I gotta get a collared shirt on top and nothing on the bottom.

Adam Stone  32:31
Gosh darn gosh darn champion. You are Robert I love it. Alright, so

Rob  32:33
how did your conversation go? Or your soliloquy about the three core streaming you said?

Adam Stone  32:38
Oh, no. Oh, I just said it was great. And you know, there's lots of there's lots of fans that follows certain players and these players are playing like super high level second third round matches. And to be honest with you some of the tours maybe specifically the PPA, you know, I don't I don't really care to see Colin and Collins brother playing two four fives in the first or the second round when like there's a whatever like a Spencer Smith Tyler loom. Pat Smith, Talon Dawson type matchup going on in the second round, where it's like super close and super talented players. So to be able to bounce around and be like, Oh, I've seen this one before or oh, this is gonna be a slaughter and be able to jump to a to another match. It's very competitive. I have really liked that as a as a viewer.

Rob  33:28
Yeah, no, loved it. I thought, yeah, I think three quarts is the most a tournament to has had streamed. And, you know, I think shout out big shout out to boxcar productions. crosslinker. Because they made that happen, set it up. And they it looked great man, it was the production quality was really high. Graphics looked amazing. Everything was solid. What I would say is I get like, I lose my mind when I'm watching Good pickleball especially on three courts. And then I'm like, where to go? How do I find it? I spent like, I spend like 30 minutes on a smart TV trying to figure out, you know, why? Like searching, searching like in the stupid little search text that takes forever. And I'm like, we have to fix this. It's a joke. And it goes from it goes from three courts early in the day and then switches to one court on ESPN plus later in the day. And you still have a bunch of good matches going not just one court. Like you have real you have like fit six matches in the back, you know, that aren't being streamed even even. I think we didn't even see the Winner's Bracket Final on the men's

Adam Stone  34:36
Winner's Bracket Final between, I don't know decent players deco bar and JW Johnson met right and Riley Newman was not was not available to see. I mean, I Oh, is

Rob  34:48
that I? I heard it was I think Kyle mentioned this that that Tyson didn't want to go on 45 minutes after his match with Colin And so because he got a longer rest, they had to like it push the schedule into something or thing or something happened like that. But regardless, Why could we maintain three courts? Like, like, you are making it harder to watch the sport? We have to make it easier. Like we have to make it easier. We have to be like, do you want people watching? We need live stream viewers, we need higher numbers. Why like path of least resistance? Let's not make this difficult. Like, if I'm tech savvy, I know how to find stuff I have every app there is if I'm having a tough time finding how to watch this match, we have issues, hundreds of people because they need to be able to cater to people like you, Adam who is not tech savvy and who does not know how to find anything.

Adam Stone  35:51
That's very true.

Rob  35:52
If they're if they're catering to me, they need to be catering to you. Point being like we have to make this easier. We have to stream more courts the prompts on the three courts. But why can why can we not get 1015 court streaming just put a little camera in the back I don't need to just put on court audio I don't even need any commentators I prefer no commentators other unless it's Adam. Stream more courts by our by the cameras for you. We can get on a finance plan. We can do whatever we need to do. But let's let's get more courts streaming, just stream them. If and if you don't want to stream them, let people their stream that don't yell at them for trying to stream on their camera because you're not streaming them. Done.

Adam Stone  36:35
That was good. Robert, that was very good

Rob  36:37
frustration, Adam, because I want to watch. I want to watch more good pickleball matches, and I know that people do, and I know I don't care how many how many people we have viewing championship court, who cares? Let's look at the whole let's get 10 cameras going. It's a numbers game. Let's get 10 cameras going. You'll have more eyeballs, you'll have more people watching you'll have you know, people that are following I don't know why we always go to Spencer Smith, but Spencer Smith's family in Utah can now watch his court and he can have his friends watch like it'll bring more eyeballs other like that wouldn't be watching otherwise. Right.

Adam Stone  37:08
Right. And you're exactly right. The junkies and the in the regulars. They're going to search through and figure it out. But those casual viewers, I would venture to say hundreds of people were just like, Ah, screw it, I'll watch something else or something that they were tuning in and either wants to record and find it and they're just like, Whatever, I'll turn it on. Whatever the hell's going on NBC and watch football or something like that. Not

Rob  37:31
to mention ESPN Plus is a it's a paywall, you have to pay for it. So how many eyeballs are we missing there?

Adam Stone  37:38
Right, right. No, I heard I saw plenty of people on social media asking for updates because they don't have ESPN plus, you

Rob  37:44
know, like we're talking about the fans, or the sports most rabid fans that want to watch that want to engage that want to know what's happening, that want to watch and share on social and like spread the word of pickleball. And we're not allowed like these people aren't allowed to watch like, let's let's get it together people come on.

Adam Stone  38:03
Attaboy, Rob, this this is this is it. That's that's a good little. That's a good little bad cop spiel. And I just I just respect every minute of it.

Rob  38:12
It's super frustrating. Yeah,

Adam Stone  38:14
I agree. I do agree. So do you. Do you have any more topics you would like to talk about? Or should we actually talk about some of the results in the tournament?

Rob  38:22
Well, let's not do that yet. Okay, about results. Yeah, let's talk about good. Just I just have a little couple notes here that I'm looking at. We talked about registrations, how they're making exceptions. Talked about Elise a little bit. I did hear that. CPS getting a little little taste of her own medicine for takia. I think Laya dropped her.

Adam Stone  38:46
Good. Yeah, that's Yeah, yeah. And hey, and I'll, I always go back to my, to my Gosh, darn good cop routes. But this, it's not like, Catherine is the only person that has ever done something a little shady or whatever. It's just the frequency and the length of time it's been happening and the number of times it's happening. So there's a lot of non angels out here. And we haven't really said much about them. And a lot of some of the stuff that goes on. But yeah, man, man, when it's just so many times, it's just so like a little, just, every time I hear a story about it, just a little piece of my heart goes away. And I'm just like, ah, and it just it just really burns me up. And yeah, like I said, Robert, I could just I just couldn't help myself. I had to say something it man, Dan Gingrich piled on big time.

Rob  39:36
Yeah, he did. And yeah, you're absolutely right. And while this is not a good decision by Katherine or a good pattern, I like Katherine a lot. I think she's a good person. I think she's very nice. made very questionable decisions. In terms of partnerships. Maybe that's influenced by Athena, who I also like, but not treating people well. I'm not a big fan of that. But to be clear, like you said, Adam there, they're not the only ones. She's not the only one. And there are people in this sport that have done way, way, way worse things than she has. All right. That's all I got.

Adam Stone  40:21
Okay, no, that's good. Is that a solid? Pause? Oh, no, it was good. It was a solid pause. Deep eye contact to ya know, for sure. That was that was very solid, very solid. But it was, it was very, it was very funny, because a lot of lot of the wording that Kathina uses is just, it's just very cold and very dull. I hope I hope this isn't going to affect a friendship, or you're not going to take this personally, that's just a business decision. And it's a business decision. And it's a business decision. But it's just handled in such a bad way, that I think that their good business decisions are really going to start affecting their business. As as people kind of have started to realize that there's some shady behavior going on. So you know, I don't Yeah, I mean, I'm not trying to I mean, I think they're, I think Canada is a great player. And I've heard, you know, some solid things about their coaching and whatever else. But I mean, when you're in a business, and you're in a community that's small, and you are just burning bridges and stepping on people's toes, how the hell is that a good business decision? I just, I just don't understand the logic and the, and the whatever behind it. But,

Rob  41:38
bro, short term, short term mindset versus long term mindset. It's a big deal, like short term money grabs, which, you know, we see in pickleball, right? Because, you know, it's sitting there a little bit, and it's not huge. So you're capitalizing on the short term, long term is everything. Got to play the long game, like business relationships, why, like, the long games, everything, and they're not playing the long game?

Adam Stone  42:03
Right. And I've also, you can't really blame I mean, this might just work out perfectly for Catherine. Like I said, super, super, super, really, really hope Lee's injury is not very significant. But Catherine's been denied by a lot of the top girls asking them to play because of how many bridges she's burned and her behavior and and how can you blame these girls? They don't know if they're gonna have a bad tournament and Catherine's just gonna drop her for the next best thing. So. So you know, I mean, I don't, man, it's just a lot of bad cop for me, but I just hope she's fine. She's playing with Anna Lee and Catherine is on an island from how she's treated people. These last couple of years. So that's, that's, I think that's the gonna be the last thing I say about it. But what other topics you got over there to get me off this bad copper rant? Robert?

Rob  42:54
No, I was just I was just thinking, like, just we see this a lot more like, like, I've seen a little bit on the men's side, but way less so. Right. Like, like, if it does happen, there's usually solid conversations around it. And there's, there's a decent level of respect on both ends and understanding and like, I've had to drop a lot of partners this year, because I haven't traveled or haven't played as much, you know, but which I always feel horrendous about, you know, nope, not going to be able to make that one. Because I know that like, that's, that's going to lend me the reputation of I don't know, like, if I sign up with Rob, is he actually going to play this tournament? I don't want that reputation, right. Like, that's a that's a terrible thing to have. And I'm not I'm not even reputation wise. I just don't like letting down a partner and not being being there to play when I've committed to playing. So yeah, I just I just don't understand how people can't feel bad about commitments they make and break because it makes me feel crap. Yeah,

Adam Stone  43:51
it eats me up too. And we were all we were both in a tough situation, I think and it was the same thing. Last year, two years ago, when when Steve Deacon was struggling with the wrist, it's very tough. When it's an injury because you like, establish this timeline, you're like, you know, everything's gonna be fine. Everything's gonna be good. I'm going to target this tournament or that tournament, and then there's a slight setback or, or something's not working out, and we want to like balance it out. You don't want to leave the person hanging a few days before but you really think you're going to be able to play so it's a very delicate situation. I don't know exactly what's perfect in that spot. But letting someone down is is rough. It's bad. I've had to pull out of tournaments because of cramping and just feeling terrible. And man, it's just, it's just a really, really, really bad feeling. And I kind of consumes your thoughts for some period of time and I just really, really don't like it. Ya

Rob  44:49
know? Agreed. So, yeah, some people being able to do it. Yeah. It's a different different breed, I guess. But yeah, let's get some results. Adam.

Adam Stone  44:59
Okay. All right, let me let me see some stuff here. I didn't make any notes.

Rob  45:05
So actually, Adam, as you look that up I did put out a I did put out a IG story about kind of submit questions for the pod. So let's see what we got.

Adam Stone  45:15
Oh, yeah, that's that's good. Well, I will I pull up these these drawers

Rob  45:22
will NML is asking me if if I know when when Catherine asks the least to play nationals, there have been a couple of different versions out there. So not sure if you had an answer. Do you know when Catherine asked Elise to play national

Adam Stone  45:32
according to at least it was a few a couple of days before?

Rob  45:36
Yeah, so it's pretty it was pretty Yeah. So basically,

Adam Stone  45:39
because because because I believe in ML message me too. And they there was something about Katherine said she was playing with Collins brother, like a couple months ago or something. Yeah, and but according to Elise, Katherine wasn't planning on playing the tournament. Then she got Collins brother as a partner decided to play it. And that's when Catherine was like, well, if I'm going I might as well play women's as well and asked Elise to get in the tournament a few days before it. I also heard that Katherine was supposed to play with with J. W. And something happened that she said she wasn't gonna play the tournament at all. And then she was signed up with Ben. Which you know, I don't have any problem with that if you weren't gonna play and then maybe she wouldn't

Rob  46:22
have was three Oh, and three if you play with Jacob.

Adam Stone  46:27
Man tell you what. Anna Lee waters

Rob  46:31
that wasn't that wasn't that was

Adam Stone  46:34
she is ridiculous man. And the thing is, is I think a lot of people like focus on the speed ups and the power and you know, some of the shot making her movement and her defense is ridiculous. She doesn't miss she doesn't miss and she has great shots, powerful shots, deceptive shots and great hand speed. So I mean, she has the total package and I think there's a huge clump of girls really close at level right behind her but she is well distant. There's way more than then Riley or college brother is so it's wild. how good

Rob  47:10
she is. Yep. 3013

Adam Stone  47:14
Yeah, that's I mean that's just you know full fledge next level. So did you you said you had a couple a couple questions.

Rob  47:21
No, go go on. Let's do the results.

Adam Stone  47:23
Okay, so yeah, so I'm just going to scan through the draw. We have we'll start off with men's doubles. We had Matt talk about pretty intense first round we had Kyle Yates and Julian Arnold verse Colin Dawson and Spencer Smith first round that was the first one I love

Rob  47:40
that match took like three hours to ya. Remember like I was scrolling through I was like oh they're still Oh, it's like four four in the first

Adam Stone  47:47
Yeah, I think was on CC two actually. And I was just like I kept like looking for another match to be on there and there wasn't so gates and Arnold ended up taking that 111 eight in the third and then had a tight one with that and Riley they won the first game 11 seven and then lost four and four after that but still going three with Matt and Riley very good result. We had Fraser Fraser and Hewitt interesting pairing we've never seen before beating Wilson and Kohler and three and I certainly wouldn't say that surprising but maybe maybe a slight upset slight Yeah. And then right Newman handling Fraser and Hewitt and two games five and nine we had let's see here we had bar and Johnson oh yeah we oh that's not that's not for you to talk about Dragon delivers and the Crime Dog is in the Gulf and winning eight and eight against Colin and his brother in the quarterfinals and then following that oh

Rob  48:47
I thoroughly enjoyed that match. I have not seen Jocelyn play so well. Like he was he was he was reading balls poaching. Like he played very very well. Same with Tyson like they were super solid. I don't think I've seen them play a better match. And yeah, I just I just wish this tournament didn't have come around.

Adam Stone  49:12
We got right and I did not see that one somehow I don't know how but great result for them. And let's not forget that, you know, a year or two ago they didn't necessarily lose to them a lot. But Colin and his brother really struggled with with Jay and Pat Smith. They weren't they were always super close and those matches and I think just you know taking balls out of the air being aggressive kind of threw off Colin and his brother so just you know just a little a little tidbit there that that might have had you know some some weight in that match that that and that Jay has something that they don't love to play against

Rob  49:50
and also I think I think nationals especially being on those you know the courts what Okay, let's talk about nationals really quick again. And the venue like the standard right on top of the courts. I always talk about this. I love venues where the stands are tight to the court. It's intimate. It's the fans actually get into it. They can hear everything on court. And I think for guys like Tyson and Jocelyn who the crowd loves, right, like they get, they get the crowd into it. They've you know, Tyson's barking Jocelyn is fist pumping. They're, they're looking at the crowd. They're they're trying to get some noise. Versus like, Colin, who are just super quiet and reserved and not really liked by many people. I think what the crowd doesn't know, like, the crowd matters. Like you want the crowd on your side. So I think I think it really like that kind of venue really suits. Kind of the people that play to the crowd. I think you're totally right. Like I even heard some I even heard quite a few boos in that women's gold match with, you know, with some calls by Katherine and Anna Lee. Like, right, the crowd was getting into it. I liked that I liked when the crowd chooses sides. I like when you know, it's like the US Open Tennis. It's fun.

Adam Stone  51:05
Yeah, no, I think you're right. And even though the stands weren't super close to championship court, there was a ton of people in the stands so that that kind of makes up for it. But those those first four courts, right when you walk in the main entrance to the left are awesome because there's like four or five or six rows of seats and they are directly on the court and you hear things there's vibe, you know, you see Tyson doing this stuff bargain, flipping his moment and stuff, you know, you know, yeah, pound in the chest. You know, people love that stuff. And you got you know, Jay got

Rob  51:40
really good at them. Yeah, really, really good. Yeah. So, holy. Yeah,

Adam Stone  51:46
that was really, I don't think that there's any confusion about it. When people like watching them they like watching Tyson and J. Anyone more

love Yeah, of course. Yeah. hairy chest. Yeah, actually, I'm not sure if you know, a year or two ago I would have I would have thought this but I actually miss J. I miss. I enjoy my time with him. And he's he's he's pretty funny. And he's pretty light hearted and has a good vibe about him. So

Rob  52:18
one of the one of my more enjoyable, overnights at a tournament was spending the night with Jocelyn and Johnny Goldberg in the room.

Adam Stone  52:26
Oh my I'm sure.

Rob  52:28
I woke up well, first off, Johnny Goldberg always sleeps and he has a Celsius has a Celsius right on his nightstand. So right when he wakes up first thing he does before he even opens his eyes. He reaches over cracks the Celsius drinks it then he gets up. Is that

Adam Stone  52:41
so? Is that energy drink sales. That's

Rob  52:43
it? Yeah. So the energy drink? Yeah, I

Adam Stone  52:47
had a friend who would sorry to interrupt you. But what they would do is they would set their alarm for like 20 minutes before they were supposed to wake up pop and Adderall and then go back to sleep and then just wait, wake up. It's so similar.

Rob  53:02
I like that a lot. I'm going to try to. I want to know that friend. Okay, so then, and then I would wake up and I would see Johnny looking out the curtain at the red lights and the cars going by. And Jocelyn would be right there with them. And they would as the light would turn green, they would make bets on how many cars would pass by before the light turns red again. So it'd be like an over under, let's say right, right setting 717 cars, and then they're counting the car. And then the bedding kept devolving to where they started gambling on coin flips, like just a quarter heads or tails $5. Like, just non stop and then so this is just fun stories of behind the scenes on tour on the road. Jocelyn Johnson would drive me to the venue. I think this is in LA. And I told him I was like in California because Jostens you know, French guy that has lived in the US for quite a while but I still like to act like he's just fresh off the boat. I was like Jocelyn and California. Red Red lights just mean yield like if nobody's coming you can go and so I got him to run a couple of red lights. Now it's pretty dangerous thing to tell to tell someone. No cars are coming. I said I said if no cars are coming, don't Okay. Oh, I Okay. This is a street like a stop sign. Yeah,

Adam Stone  54:24
well tell you what you're right. Johnny Gabri likes to have a few cocktails and make some bets. And ya know, you know, he's a real gambling champion when it doesn't even need to be something specific. Let's just start flipping that coin as you start flipping that coin. Yeah, that's that's pretty good stuff. Good. Yeah, they might. Who knows how much they were doing the coin flips for, depending on if someone got bitten by a dog in Florida. Who knows? This could have been $1,000 coin flips, you know if we had some good stuff going

Rob  54:50
on. If anybody that's out there needs a personal injury attorney Johnny Goldberg and associate Johnny Goldberg. If you get bit by a dog, that's an easy 30k 30k So if anybody's tight on cash out there just just happened to run into a dog, take that bite. Get a little cash. Right my boy Johnny, got your boy

Adam Stone  55:09
Johnny and then okay, so Well, I guess we'll continue even though this was very fun five minutes, I guess we'll continue with our results here. We have after that big win from the Crime Dog and delivers, they faced off against deco bar and JW Johnson and lost 11 for 10 1211 for very tight match even though it was four and four and those other two games so I'm sure that was a very competitive one. I did not see that one either. And then we had bar and Johnson winning two and three against Riley Newman and Matt Wright and the winners final very shocking score, obviously, bar Johnson studs on the court, but man two and three against a ridiculously high quality opponent like that. Right. And Riley Newman is a pretty spectacular result for

Rob  55:56
them. It is that was winners. What was that? Semi or winners? That

Adam Stone  55:59
was that was WINNERS BRACKET finals? No. Okay. Winner's Bracket Final, right? So we had

Rob  56:05
them. Yeah, guaranteed them a silver minimum. Right?

Adam Stone  56:08
Right. Correct. So we had and wild format too, by the way, we didn't talk about this. So the matches are three out of five and a game to 15.

Rob  56:18

Adam Stone  56:19
well, that's wild.

Rob  56:21
No, it's so stupid. It's, that's it's one of the dumbest formats I've seen, you're gonna like that women's that women's match. Like you're gonna make them play a five game match, and then go to a game of 15. Like, if you play it best of five, the winner or the winner wins period. Right. So don't make the best of five, make it a two out of three and then a 15. But right out of five, it's just app. So

Adam Stone  56:44
that means they definitely need to the person coming through undefeated obviously needs to have an advantage, but three out of five and then the game to 15 Anna Lee could have easily played 18 games, including three, three that were to 15 that is a ridiculous amount of pickleball in one day, and I get them wanting to extend it and make it as long as possible and have you know the great matches with the great players that were out there. But man, three out of five and and yo 15 is wild. We

Rob  57:16
played we played with a Franklin. Yeah, that's another another big factor. So if you don't know out there, the Franklin just plays a little softer than a euro. So points are extended a little longer. It's definitely more taxing on the players. Longer points. legs get Cashmore. So yeah, I mean, to play that format. Throw an X 40 on top. And you're talking about like, Yeah, I mean it not to be dramatic, but we're talking about player safety now to like that, that can cause injury, especially for somebody that's, you know, playing playing three times in that day. So shame on you.

Adam Stone  57:56
Like, this, this is, this is spicy, I knew it was good. It was gonna be but man, there's a lot going on. Yeah, I can't, I can't. There's a lot going on. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna chalk it up as wild that that was the format. And and we've said it before. And I want to make this very clear. These balls are so different players. There's so many players that are way better with the Franklin are way better with the dura. And I don't think it's just as simple as one softer one that prefers to softball is better with the Franklin one that prefers the hardball. There's a lot of factors that go into it. It's, you know, initial speed ups being more on it. The people with the questionable soft games having more margin for error with the Franklin, there's so many factors that go into it. And I think eventually when we get a little more elaborate with the stats, and whatever else we're going to see some players really struggle with certain balls and in certain geographic areas. So just just wanted to bring that up, because I think it is a huge, huge deal and really helps some players and hurts others.

Rob  59:04
Yeah, shout out to real clear stats in in Austin. Sorry, I didn't get back to you when I was in town couldn't make it happen. But that's a fantastic point out to teed the princes in terms of in terms of players into the new year, we're going to need a much we're going to need some significant data to be able to analyze that they're just getting things rolling by doing stats, but they're doing a great job on stats that's real clear stats, that that is this is not a sponsored thing, but maybe you

Adam Stone  59:30
know and I Yeah, and I I sat down with him on a zoom call for 45 minutes, a couple of days a couple of days ago and he just wanted to throw it all out there in terms of you know what they were doing what he thought, Should are these stats important are those stats important to just tell me a little bit about that and I've really enjoyed it. I'm obsessed with fantasy baseball, huge, huge stat based sport, obviously played poker for Over a decade professionally, so I like yeah, like the numbers. I like the stats and some of the stuff, some of the deeper digs that he was doing. And some of the non, you know, standard stats were really cool to see. And he had a lot of, he had a lot of good stuff from that MLP. And he shared, he shared it with me, and I enjoyed that very much. So you're right, shout out to shout out to those guys, or that

Rob  1:00:24
kind of like that, like that they're getting a player feedback, too, because that's really important. And so I think I think it's what a lot of companies actually miss.

Adam Stone  1:00:31
Right? Right. It's very important, because I mean, I mean, he had 40 stats are, you know, a crazy amount, he was just kind of wanting to know what, and we kind of went through and kind of saw all these numbers and these percentages and what correlated to victory and what kinda was cloudy? You couldn't really tell so? Yeah, I just wanted to say one thing, Robert, because, you know, I don't really like to toot my own horn, but I will, you know, that I had the highest percentage and MLP of making it to the kitchen. When we're serving when we're serving the highest percentage making it to the kitchen. Now once I got to the kitchen, I got lit up a little bit, but yeah, you gotta go to the kitchen. I got there. I got there. So it was pretty interesting stats to see the percentage. I

Rob  1:01:18
think that's a combination. That's just purely a combination of two things. Adam, that's what that's that's downy soft hands. Number one. And elite foot speed.

Adam Stone  1:01:28
Elite explosive, professional athletes. A little more specific there. Yeah, well, I won't say the percentages of you know, times I got lit up at the kitchen line, but I just wanted to balance that. I was like, You know what, that makes sense. It makes sense. I don't miss a lot. I make it to the kitchen a lot. And I get lit up a little bit so I think I don't wait here. That's funny. Okay, yeah, so I just got I'm just I just looked at my phone here and I got Oh, we got we got big D deco bar sending me a novel talking about talking about his match and I always have some nice back and forth with deco about strategy and situations that that he's been getting into since since I have retired. So always enjoy that. And, you know, after this gets finished, I'll have to check that out and see what he had to say. Because as it plays in perfectly to what we're about to talk about, it was not the smoothest final for deco bar and JW Johnson as they were that was a mess. Yeah, they went down in three games and then and then lost the game to 15 as well. So obviously playing a Gosh, stop saying obviously Sorry, guys. Very, very good opponent. So not not not shocking. Also, okay. It just feels it feels awkward. I got to work on it. All right. So that was that was men's double. So just a breakdown.

Rob  1:02:57
Let's let's, let's just forget the list. Forget the results. I mean, I'm already I got some questions for us. sound cool. Let's

Adam Stone  1:03:03
do that. Perfect. Okay,

Rob  1:03:05
so this is from a fellow pro who gave Katina the right to act like they do. Well, you've already gone through that. But lovely question. Thank you for asking. Mr. Fresh juicebox ask with MLP growing in size, will we see less pros playing at tournaments? I don't believe Oh,

Adam Stone  1:03:23
I think maybe, I think maybe not right now or this year, or next year. But I think that that's actually a great little topic, I believe. Looney Tunes, Tyler Lun, veteran veteran of the game, high level player, he made a post on Instagram, just talking about end of the season, lots of people are flat. Lots of people are struggling with the you know, the mental and especially the physical grind of being on tour and the product is worse. So I think as more money comes in, and the prize money is a little bigger, I think that some people will choose to grind the less, play a few less tournaments and still make a similar amount of money. So I don't know if that happens next year, two years from now or seven years from now, but I think it's a reasonable statement. And I could definitely see that happening. I mean, because I think right now, it's possible that there's so the PPA contracted players. I think they have to play at least 20 Or they want they want them next year. I'm not not positive on that.

Rob  1:04:31
This year was I think 16. Okay, so 20 next year, next year, next year is 20. And then there's six MLPs on top. And what I've heard is that the PPA players will not necessarily have to play all six MLPs if they don't want to, even if they're drafted, which that's a whole topic within itself, right?

Adam Stone  1:04:52
Oh, man, I just don't understand how that's gonna happen. What does that do for the draft and the value

Rob  1:05:00
doesn't make doesn't make PPA players less desirable? Because you don't know if they're gonna play all six? Or do you have to? Or do you draft them? Make them sign a commitment to play all six? And then take them on?

Adam Stone  1:05:14
I mean, I think you have to I mean, what I mean, how huge of a deal is it that you might play three or four of the six? I don't understand that at all. Maybe it could be explained to me a little bit better, but I just don't understand how that works or how that's an option. And especially if it's up for if it's not a guarantee, if someone's not like, oh, I can only play these three before the draft starts. If it's just kind of up in the air, you don't have to play them all. And they're just gonna pull the ripcord randomly throughout the year on a tournament. That seems that seems very crazy.

Rob  1:05:44
Nobody's gonna say, oh, I can just play these three, they're gonna be like, yeah, we'll see how it goes. Draft me.

Adam Stone  1:05:49
Yeah, play them all. My team isn't very good. And they just they just pull out. So yeah,

Rob  1:05:53
yeah. Are they good? Or they're in the second division? Because there's probably about two divisions second division and right there, like, you know, this isn't going to be very fun. I'm not, maybe I'm right, we'll see what we'll see what the money is. Right. So I think that's going to be a big factor. In terms of what's guaranteed to a player for playing, if it's, you know, they're paying a lot of people if it's not, if it's not, you know, better guaranteed money that you can earn at a different tournament, then you're gonna be very smart about which which events you play.

Adam Stone  1:06:23
So, so just just to talk about the numbers again, so that's 20, they need to play 20 PPAs. But there's 25 PPAs. available,

Rob  1:06:33
I believe. Yeah, I think five special events is what Connor told me.

Adam Stone  1:06:36
And six MLPs and then you have US Open nationals. And you know, whatever little Yeah, HPPs maybe some exhibitions and programs squeezed in there. A few of those. So I mean, that's a lot of court time. A lot of tournaments. A lot going on, and I think Tyler looms definitely onto something. Just thinking of it affecting the product. I've seen it so much.

Rob  1:07:01
We've talked about it in singles, too, right? Yeah. And it's like a day like the products terrible. Yeah, it's actually a match already. Yeah, these

Adam Stone  1:07:08
matches are garbage. And we always talk about eyeballs, we need eyeballs. We need viewing if you know there's just a bunch of you know, two shot or three shot singles matches because everyone's cramping or close to it. That doesn't look great as when we have you know, whoever screeching their tires running this down, run that down crazy, you know, athletic plays and crazy points with longer points with lots of good rallies. It's obviously bad for the product and and we'll see how that gets ironed out. Moving forward.

Rob  1:07:39
Got some more from my homie Nate lumber here. Okay. I don't know what this question means. But we can decipher it however, who will get exposed in the new MLP League?

Adam Stone  1:07:52
Who will get exposed? Exposed? I would say who's gonna get exposed is the teams that don't me have me as a general manager.

Rob  1:08:02
Oh, I like and pastic answer, but you're also making it seem like more than one team can have you as general manager. Oh, a slight conflict of

Adam Stone  1:08:12
interest seems like a slight one. Okay, good. That's probably not on

Rob  1:08:15
me. Yes. On unless you're in different divisions, and you don't play. Oh,

Adam Stone  1:08:20
spicy. Spicy. Okay,

Rob  1:08:23
next one. These are around nationals performance. Who was the most disappointing at Nationals? Let's we can call that player broadcast anything regarding nationals? Who was most?

Adam Stone  1:08:37
I mean, I think there's probably probably should have done my notes on the drawers to find a player. I don't know exactly, because there was some. There was some maybe some players that I was hoping for more for but maybe didn't quite have the regular partners. So it's kind of hard to completely quantify who underachieved or not with with some different partnerships, or maybe even possibly a lesser partner or to engender or mixed. So that's a tough call on a player. I've already bashed enough people on here very,

Rob  1:09:11
very politically correct. Next question. Thank you. Who was the most surprising at Nationals?

Adam Stone  1:09:17
The most surprising need my notes I don't know. Maybe I could. This is kind of obvious take but I mean, Anna Leigh, is re I mean, she wins triple crowns all the time, but the manner that she's done it and some of the play that she had, and that mixed doubles match. I mean, it's just it's just completely silly. And it just already just piled on to the fact that she's just head and shoulders above any of the other ladies even though there's, you know, seven or eight of them in that group behind her but she's she's just tough, man. She's tough.

Rob  1:09:54
Yeah, agreed. I think I think what do you think we're Riley and Al stronger.

Adam Stone  1:10:04
I mean, I believe I don't have the exact numbers in front of me. But Katherine and Riley have played them tough several times. I'm not sure how many times they've won against always Tyler and it's always an athlete. Right. So to three Oh, and three whatever. That's that's just quite a statement being flipping out. Isn't astroturfing. Right? So, yeah, maybe maybe there's something to that. Maybe. I mean, we've already talked about Riley. Being right there in gender and maybe maybe now and mixed as well. We know Anna Lee, we just talked about that. But maybe it's tighter on the men's side than we think. And we think and the Annalee is even more of a gap between her and the next lady.

Rob  1:10:52
Yeah. Grilled cheese with cheddar or pepperjack.

Adam Stone  1:10:57
Cheddar. So I really like spicy food. But there's certain things that I don't like it for. So I like jalapenos on a lot of things. But certain things. I don't necessarily need the spice. And I think that there's plenty of flavor and in a grilled cheese without the pepper jack. Just my opinion.

Rob  1:11:15
I like that. Let's, that's a good answer. The pickleball roll the pickleball world world's a hardware to say world is in crisis right now from CP al W. What are your thoughts? We've covered that? Very much? Lightly. What does ATP focus on becoming for players? This is from our boy, Casey Pat. Second shout out of the day, what up case? What does ATP focus on becoming for the players? How do they market themselves now because we talked about this in the last episode, Adam, they are, in my opinion, a very precarious position. I know they have a solid person next year. That's enough. We saw etre right. And I bilbrook Buttner get signed by the PPA which very smart on the PPAs. And right they you know, signing women is smart, in my opinion. If you can sign when you like the league needs to or needs some smart move. What is the ABP need to do now? What are they going to become? What are they focusing on? Are they still going to try to compete and be a be a pro tour?

Adam Stone  1:12:25
Yes, that's a fantastic question. Pretty funny. We saw a PP make a post, I guess. I guess it was Kindness Day or something. I didn't know the thing. But they made a post. Yeah, that they're all about Well, time to post from a PP that they're all about integrity, sportsmanship and, you know, showed players high fiving and whatever. I thought that that was hilarious. And I think that's always been the narrative that yeah, they have slightly less to offer in terms of funds and possibly facilities, but it's a great overall experience for fans, players and amateurs all inclusive and that's kind of been their thing from the beginning. So if there's a few ways it could go they could continue to be a rival toward to the PPA they could possibly be kind of the up and comers league where you're less established but talented and and that's the case they just started the Champions Tour, which is the senior pros relabeling their tour the Champions Tour. They have very good reviews in terms of amateur play so so I'm not sure if they were will continue to be a full fledged rival which I really think they were last year to the PPA or they could possibly go a couple of different routes and you know make their money and have their have their reputation and what they're offering be slightly different as opposed to a a full rival to the PPA I'm not sure and I think obviously this this year will say a lot about that.

Rob  1:14:04
I love I love your passion.

Adam Stone  1:14:05
Yeah, obviously just saying it just obviously I'm not gonna I'm not gonna bash shoot.

Rob  1:14:14
Okay. Sponsorships, this is just I guess this isn't a question. This is just an additional comment by Casey Pat. sponsorships for players must increase pros need to raise the bottom line together. I think that's a fair comment. Casey.

Adam Stone  1:14:28
pros need to be together to raise the bottom line

Rob  1:14:33
or raise the bottom line together. I think I think so. The what that goes back to is and what he thinks is, like you mentioned like a unified front like, like, whether it's a council, whether it's a player's union, whatever it may be. But we should we should, you know, have have minimums. We should have all that stuff. And I think that's what he's referring to. And yeah, I think pros want more money, Casey. So I think you're on the Something

Adam Stone  1:15:00
people people seem to like money. Yeah, they seem to like it quite a bit I don't really like it that much Robert it's necessary.

Rob  1:15:10
But ya know, it's like you don't need access you just you want to you want the basics you don't want to worry about it. But yeah,

Adam Stone  1:15:16
whether it's absolutely necessary provides freedoms that that is important to do the things that you want to do but whether I'm married to profit or not, I just need a need what I need and that's about it. I'm not gonna you know, muddle my life around money grabbing but it is necessary and Casey Pat, it's a unified front to you know, have a baseline of of earnings for players is is something that

Rob  1:15:48
probably needs to happen. League Blair league toward minimum, that kind of thing, right? Why is Adam's new haircut so effing hot?

Adam Stone  1:16:02
Who said was that my account that said that?

Rob  1:16:05
Not profit? I got no that was. That was from the despicable.

Adam Stone  1:16:11
I knew I knew it. I was like that from my I was like, that'd be weird if it was from my mom, because she said hot, but that would be something my mom would say, you know, like, Yeah, whatever. So no, I like it's easy to deal

Rob  1:16:23
with. Your mom would say, why is Adams haircuts?

Adam Stone  1:16:28
No, I said that it probably wasn't her because she said hot. But she wouldn't say something about my appearance on stream. Oh, sure that most other people wouldn't. I remember doing the next agenda. And you know, I had like seven comments on eight hours of commentary. And you know, six of them were from my mother so fast. Yeah. So, pretty quality stuff. We always have to give a shout out to mom and pop a stone on an episode. So there you go.

Rob  1:16:54
Okay, so this is this is from often your co host on the EPP tour. Oh, one

Adam Stone  1:17:05
last morning boring.

Rob  1:17:06
But what are each of your goals for the upcoming year in terms of pickleball? Oh,

Adam Stone  1:17:10
I would say my goals are to be a GM. Yes, be be the first true GM and team coach for an MLP team to mix in some teaching of the pickleball which I very much enjoy to do and some commentating of the pickleball. And who knows here and you know, around my birthday around, baby having time or in May, maybe if the body is feeling good the second half of the year, I might I might jump in a couple just to kinda see what's going on. Definitely still retired, we'll never be a full time player again. But I think it'd be fun to jump back on the court a couple times, maybe play with with a good friend and ruin someone's day. That sounds pretty fun to me.

Rob  1:17:59
One thing is for sure you will be getting to the kitchen line.

Adam Stone  1:18:02
Yes, at a high clip. Yeah, once once I get there, we'll see. But I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna get there.

Rob  1:18:10
My goal is for the next year in pickleball is to play a lot. I'm going to play I'm looking to play a full schedule. I'm looking to make my return. And I plan on doing that in a big way. I yeah, I don't like losing. I'm very competitive. I'm not okay, just playing and getting decent results. So I am lining up partners. I'm lining up my schedule. I'm coming for everybody, Adam. And

Adam Stone  1:18:39
I like that. And you don't like losing you don't have mediocre results. And because of that reason, Robert, we don't have any tournaments together on the schedule. So it's good. Finding some different partners if you don't want to have mediocre results. So kudos to you for searching the partners out.

Rob  1:18:59
I'm actually super pumped to be like, like the little I have played this year. I've one thing one thing that I did realize because you know, into 2021 I played I think I played 22 tournaments that year, which felt like 52 To be honest, it felt like a lie. We talked about a lot of burnout towards the end of the year. Especially a stretch in the summer. I think I played like six or seven weeks in a row or something stupid. I remember being at beer city and just being like, I don't care to see myself on court. Like why am I out here?

Adam Stone  1:19:30
My favorite is just blow it deckle like, I'm thinking in my mind. Just Just missed some shots so I can go home. Come on. I thought you were say I learned something this year in pickleball. And it was to not attack Megan fudge. I thought

Rob  1:19:48
that oh, that's that's number two. Okay, but maybe it should be number one because I'll make you finish continue. I played her a few times and there's no there's no female on tour that just makes to me looks stupid like she does which is why I'm hoping to play some tournament with her so I don't have to play because Megan Megan's good and she's only gonna get good or that was intentional guys I'm not that stupid.

Adam Stone  1:20:11
Those are great sunglasses by the way.

Rob  1:20:13
Good Are they aren't love gooders also you know, looking for sponsors so good or hit us up knocked around as well. Tomahawk shades. What's up? Talk to you guys online. We'll take we'll take we'll take money from anybody not any Come on. Come on up blood money. Come on. Well, you now refer to Darth as simply NB F F and let everyone try and figure it out. That's funny. Well, that's a chat reference.

Adam Stone  1:20:39
Oh, I downloaded the discord. Oh, you gotta get it. I can't figure out how to get it going, man.

Rob  1:20:46
There's a lot of tomfoolery on Discord. I mean, I did some Heller owed off is on there. Hey, che is on there. Lamb edge is I'm Steve from Cayman like, shout out to all the homies.

Adam Stone  1:20:58
QA they know so much. They just gotta get on that chat. Maybe I'll figure it.

Rob  1:21:05
Oh, can't forget Trevor. pickable transmit right or die. Don't for James like they will get you in there. We'll get Okay, good. Good. Good. Good. Okay, so what else we got? Just a couple more. Oh, this is from the people's champ John Davison.

Adam Stone  1:21:21
Oh, Davison.

Rob  1:21:24
Oh, he wants to He wants us to eventually do a 2014 mock draft using the same draft form. Oh, my God, that would take that would take a week. But hey, we've been known to do it. So maybe maybe we do a mock draft Adam,

Adam Stone  1:21:36
people. He plays people's champ

Rob  1:21:39
like it? I think that might be Yeah, that might be Oh God. So do you have anything else we need to cover Adam? Robert, I

Adam Stone  1:21:46
think I think we really we really went for it today and oh, we don't need to do it. No, no, no, that's this is what people wanted and we gave it to

Rob  1:21:54
pickleball If you want to see results. Enjoy. By Robert, by Adam.

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